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All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

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Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#101
It's easy to under-estimate the value web technologies provide their users, because it's hard to visualise large numbers of people. It's the well known "your brain doesn't naturally multiply" problem.

Let's say you have a technology product that does something pretty trivial, but has non-zero value. Let's say you do something that's worth about 30c per day of utility to each user. If you give this value to 10 million users, you're creating about $3 million of value every day --- or $1 billion of value a year.

That value doesn't seem nearly as real as the equivalent value deployed to a smaller group of people. But that's just because 10 million people is impossible to visualise. The value is still totally real though, despite your lack of intuition for it.

If you believe Facebook delivers little total value, then you must believe its value to individual users is almost totally nil, simply because of the enormous number of people who use the service daily.

Even if you don't like Facebook much, can you really argue that it's delivering _nothing_ to its average user? It's not delivering _any_ value to them at all?

Facebook has 500 million users, and 250 million daily unique logins. If logging on to Facebook delivers even a single cent of value, the total value delivered by each Facebook engineer is already going to be staggering.

1c is an enormous underestimate of what people actually get from the service, but let's run with this. At 1c per login, it's delivering $25 million per day. It has 2000 employees, so each employee is delivering an average of $12.5k per day. I'd actually put the value-per-login at over $1, which would take the average contribution to over $1 million per day.

People would be wise to think carefully before questioning the way markets are allocating capital and drawing in talent. There are certainly cases where the capital allocation is inefficient, but there are also cases where your mental heuristics give you blind-spots.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#102
post #71
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully disagree that Facebook has peaked. Once growth settles down at 700 million users or so, they will roll out service after service. Start thinking about all the things you could do with it. Overthrowing countries is just the beginning.

Facebook or twitter didn't overthrow anyone. Those are just communication tools and there plenty of those. Also Facebook sucks privacy-wise. You write something and everyone sees it. You don't want your police and ruling-party friends see your pics at a protest and criticizing your government. When people are already on the streets - then its on Facebook. Which is an effect not a cause.

This is true - FB/Twitter are just tools, just like the Internet is (or at least a platform). Social did not overthrow any governments, but it enabled people to communicate more effectively and thusly organize and do something about their situations.

I was just down at FB headquarters last week. Great space. Tons of smart people. Tons. But... I used to be a big believer in FB, but after I started developing apps on their platform, I just started seeing things that I didn't like. You could log into one of our servers, flip on the logging, and just watch all kinds of crap from people I had no connection to scroll by. Besides the fact that most of it was pointless, mindless, drivel (I was saddened by humanity at this point), the fact that this was a 'workaround' around FB's privacy - I dunno, it didn't sit with me well.

I haven't personally used FB in a while - over a year - and yet when I glance at my fiancé's wall, god, the most ridiculous crap is on there and it's consistent. I asked her "jesus, does anyone have a fucking life..?!".

But beyond that, I just feel like FB is a talent vortex. I went around last week and met so many smart, excited people, yet, I felt they were just suckers. Sure, they're all going to be rich, no doubt about that. And maybe, some will leave to actually start revolutionary companies. But the fact that they're all there coding away on ways to make me the ad or figuring out more efficient ways to share my information (even if I specifically have said not to) - to me, it just seems a waste. It's great for Zuck because, after all, FB owns the copyright to so much of the things that are 'shared'. But it's not great for everyone else. It's not a 'social revolution', it's just about money and, really, conning it out of people in ways they don't understand (yet, ever?).

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#103
post #97
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any job that someone's willing to pay to have done - by paying for the job, they indicate that it's worth that much money, and hence at least as useful as that money was.

Lawyers, drug dealers, assassins, politicians, bankers, managers, accountants, stock traders, to mention a few: all paid significant amounts but not really that worthy, are they?

They wouldn't be paid if they weren't worth the money they were getting; the customers would rather keep their money.

Lawyers: Do I really need to explain that they perform an important, valuable role?

Drug dealers: Can't say much here. Drugs are tricky, economists call them inelastic, and they can make people irrational.

Bankers: I sure like being able to invest my money and use it everywhere via EFTPOS

Accountants: It's a hell of a drag doing taxes. It's very valuable to have someone do this work for you (if it wasn't, everyone would do their own accounting).

Bottom line: determining value is a tricky economic/algorithmic question.

Luckily, we have a price system, where people can set prices. If the customers pay that price, that's a strong indicator that the service is worth that much. It's not perfect (see bubbles), but it works pretty well on average.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#104

It's easy to under-estimate the value web technologies provide their users, because it's hard to visualise large numbers of people. It's the well known "your brain doesn't naturally multiply" problem. Let's say you have a technology product that does something pretty trivial, but has non-zero value. Let's say you do something that's worth about 30c per day of utility to each user. If you give this value to 10 million…

I am not comparing Facebook to meth, but I just want to point out that the same form of argument you just made would also apply to meth.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#105
This is completely naive... today Italy is voting for a referendum. After 35 years we are near to reach the quorum, and beat Berlusconi special protection laws, avoid water privatization, and so forth.

Part of this I bet is thanks to Facebook, as in the latest days there was a massive campaign to go voting, ran collectively by all the people that think this vote is important, on Facebook. For us "internet geeks" Facebook may be not so cool, but the reality is that he is making the average person, a "connected person".

This is huge... and deserves the best minds in the world.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#106
If you ask yourself "What's most important in my life?" the answer will probably be "the people and relationships in my life".

Can't think of any better thing to work on than ways to improve our relationships with the people in our lifes. I'm happy that the best talent dealing with it. I wish I did.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#108
post #104

It's easy to under-estimate the value web technologies provide their users, because it's hard to visualise large numbers of people. It's the well known "your brain doesn't naturally multiply" problem. Let's say you have a technology product that does something pretty trivial, but has non-zero value. Let's say you do something that's worth about 30c per day of utility to each user. If you give this value to 10 million…

I am not comparing Facebook to meth, but I just want to point out that the same form of argument you just made would also apply to meth.

For an addict, each meth use is delivering an enormous amount of negative value. There's also the terrible negative value the addict may create for other people. The same argument about multiplication would suggest that your intuition under-estimates the total negative effects of meth on the world.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the afflictions cross economic boundaries is obvious, but how about access to those treatments? The fact that pharma companies pursue these issues vs some more life-threatening is a pure profit calculation based on those with the means to pay for them. But don't get me wrong, I'm a dyed in the wool free-market man so I have no issue with them applying their resources however they see fit, but let's dispense with…

Whoa, hold on... I think medicine and biotech are misunderstood here. First of all, Big Pharma != Academia or biotech startups. The former group concentrates on profitability and marketable drugs, whereas the latter two do the heavy lifting for a broad spectrum of diseases. Secondly (and more importantly), we must realize that there are two issues at hand: the ease of developing an effective drug to combat a particul…

My take is that it's just too early in biotech. Back in 1973 it was certainly possible to envision Facebook and Twitter. For example, if you read Steven Levy's Hackers you'll learn about the Community Memory project:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Memory

But computers and their associated tech like telecom were so expensive in 1973 that Community Memory was impractical at scale. There was no Facebook around to offer Lee Felsenstein an enormous salary and a potential IPO. The infrastructure wasn't yet built out, the audience wasn't yet there, and investor consciousness had not yet been raised. It took another twenty years of development to get from that point to the Web, and then another decade or so to get to Facebook.

Biotech is still stuck in the equivalent of 1973. We've identified many of the processes that need to become cheaper and more ubiquitous in order to conduct biotech research in your basement, but the tools are still large, expensive, and tedious to use. So at this point if you go into biotech you'll either spend 12 hours a day pipetting liquids by hand, waiting for the PCR machine, and pasting your data into Excel for analysis, or you'll spend 12 hours a day raising money to pay for the pipettes, the PCR machine, and the other scientists who are running them.

I've spent years as a biotech postdoc, and I've spent years as a programmer, and it's no mystery to me why people would rather be programmers, and would rather hire programmers. The day-to-day work is more pleasant, and the results have got such evident and immediate value that you can get good pay for them with relatively little effort or risk. Plus, you're part of a really big and freewheeling global culture, not only of web users but of web programmers.

Re: All these Brilliant People at Facebook Make Me Sad

#110
post #24

My mother, who was disabled by a stroke some years ago, relies on no non-medical technology as much as she relies on Facebook. It is how she keeps up with the family, who are scattered across the country (and, er, world), without which she would never get to talk to aunts/uncles/cousins since they see each other only at events/reunions and she often isn't well enough to travel. I respect that folks don't find a lot o…

It's an interesting point. At my day job, I had an extensive discussion with a coworker who spends his days in sales and marketing. I was telling him that I'm not really the right person to talk to about marketing campaigns on the Internet because I'm virtually immune to them. Even on systems without adblock on, I rarely notice advertisements and I don't think I've ever clicked one. I don't like talking to sales people in stores because I generally don't gain anything by the interaction. And I have no idea what popular commercials are because I automatically blank them out of my perception.

Apparently, my aversion to advertising is so strong that FB doesn't even put any on my page.

He was aghast.

He ran down a list of current commercials for popular products, ones that he had been paying attention to, nothing.

We went to his Facebook page and his was full of advertisements, mine? Not a one.

"How was this possible? I'm starting to have doubts about the effectiveness of an ad campaign?"

It was then that we both realized that FB and Google are almost entirely ad supported and I must be a very bizarre outlier, never to be used as a benchmark for ad effectiveness.

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