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The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

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Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#21

Post by formerly_proven »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #15
Deestan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can be "trusted" with a backdoor, because it isn't really a valid concept. A backdoor is a vulnerability that doesn't care who you are or what your purpose is or who pays you. If you found the backdoor it is open to you. However hard the backdoor's security is, an insider recruited by Swedish intelligence (or Russia whatever the bogeyman du jour is) will leak the key at some point. Now all your "secure" shit c…

The TSA masterkey case is an interesting analogue example. I don't know much about locks, but I wonder how it could ever be secure, even if they never leaked photos of the masterkeys. In principle, it should be possible to reverse-engineer the shape of the masterkey from any masterkey-compatible lock. Would it be practical to do this?

- It is not secure

- You can make/buy them

- Luggage locks are all garbage anyway

Most mechanical locks are garbage and neither resistant to practical physical attacks nor at all pick resistant. Many are vulnerable to super-generic low-skill attacks like bump keys and comb picks.

Many electronic locks are garbage.

Smart locks are complete garbage.

See https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ for many practical examples.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#22

Post by HenryBemis »

peteretep wrote: post #11
HenryBemis wrote: post #5

> When the FBI says it’s “going dark” because it can’t beat encryption, what it’s really asking for is a method of breaking in that’s cheaper, easier The way I see it, authorities all over have zero difficulty in breaking into devices (deus ex Cellebrite). I always believe that any password we use (computers, phones, etc.) is only to protect us against the common criminal . Someone who will take your phone, and a str…

> Just warrant+gag And ... that’s probably ok? The people are not meant to be protected against all searches, only warrantless search.

>And ... that’s probably ok

1000% ok. Caveat: the warrant is legit and they (judges/appropriate authorities per country) do their job right and don't have 100 pre-printed approvals (a la blank cheque) lying around and just hand them over to any policeman and/or torturer walks in asking for one.

(Also) I am thinking the people in China, Iran, Turkey, etc. where people dissapear in the middle of the night (even public figures). Do we not care for those 1.5bn people because they are outside the EU, USA, CA, AUS, NZ, etc?

My initial point is that one cannot hide from the State. One can only hide their data from the common criminal.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#23

Post by poink »

_wldu wrote: post #20
cm2187 wrote: post #8

Another argument against the "going dark" claim is that before smartphones and the internet, the only conversations the FBI could monitor was through phonelines and mail. These were known to be easily monitored and I doubt there was much more criminal activity happening through those then than now. I would argue that the conversations that have gone online are the interactions that were previously happening in-person…

15 years ago, if I had said that society would build a tracking system and that most people would happily carry a tracker in their pocket and pay monthly fees to support the tracking networks, I would have been laughed out of the room. But that is what happened, and most people are oblivious to this fact.

I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications.

The idea that the government can use your mobile phone to spy on you is so widely understood that even the dumbest popcorn movies make sure to show fugitives ditching their phones and criminals collecting/discarding them before they discuss business without explaining why. Everybody understands the purpose of a "burner" phone.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#25

Post by lbblack »

cm2187 wrote: post #8

Another argument against the "going dark" claim is that before smartphones and the internet, the only conversations the FBI could monitor was through phonelines and mail. These were known to be easily monitored and I doubt there was much more criminal activity happening through those then than now. I would argue that the conversations that have gone online are the interactions that were previously happening in-person…

I find it extremely alarming that law enforcement almost everywhere around the world is attempting to undermine almost a century-fold of legitimate mathematics and science with regards to encryption and cryptography.

It's a tad embarrassing that lawmakers (who aren't even computer scientists like c'mon are we for real here?) somehow forgot how and who broke the Enigma Machine. Alan Turing did that.

Same thing with the Tor browser developed by the US Navy. Either everyone has access to a tool which can guarantee that you can blend in with the rest of the crowd, or every civilian has a special color and we all pop out while the lawmakers and police are somehow wearing grey.

How did cypherpunks and computer scientists get blasted from the government like this? Shouldn't there be some laws regarding digital privacy for US citizens?

Somehow AD revenue is caked everywhere but I can't use a computer without the FBI wanting my social security card? What the duck. Shucks I thought this was America.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#26

Post by _wldu »

poink wrote: post #23
_wldu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years ago, if I had said that society would build a tracking system and that most people would happily carry a tracker in their pocket and pay monthly fees to support the tracking networks, I would have been laughed out of the room. But that is what happened, and most people are oblivious to this fact.

I don't think, "Most people are oblivious," they just don't care and/or don't understand the implications. The idea that the government can use your mobile phone to spy on you is so widely understood that even the dumbest popcorn movies make sure to show fugitives ditching their phones and criminals collecting/discarding them before they discuss business without explaining why. Everybody understands the purpose of a…

Yes, most everyone knows that they can be tracked.

The point is that we voluntarily paid/pay to build and maintain the tracking infrastructure. That's what most people don't realize.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#27

Post by scruffyherder »

cm2187 wrote: post #8

Another argument against the "going dark" claim is that before smartphones and the internet, the only conversations the FBI could monitor was through phonelines and mail. These were known to be easily monitored and I doubt there was much more criminal activity happening through those then than now. I would argue that the conversations that have gone online are the interactions that were previously happening in-person…

I’ll take 15kg of pastrami for the Miami delivery. I’m getting a pushback on the new price on Genoa but Eddie tells me he knows he can smooth it over.

The dates however are spoiled,it’s going to need a total clean.

I am the walrus.

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#28

Post by scruffyherder »

cies wrote: post #3

I dont understand why the US people still trust these agencies. FBI, CIA, NSA have all shown to act against the democracy in many cases. If they could be trusted, they could be trusted with a backdoor. Since they cannot be trusted, the backdoor only makes them a more dangerous enemy of the people.

I voted with my feet. Life outside the five eyes has been... interesting

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#29

Post by scruffyherder »

XorNot wrote: post #7
HenryBemis wrote: post #5

> When the FBI says it’s “going dark” because it can’t beat encryption, what it’s really asking for is a method of breaking in that’s cheaper, easier The way I see it, authorities all over have zero difficulty in breaking into devices (deus ex Cellebrite). I always believe that any password we use (computers, phones, etc.) is only to protect us against the common criminal . Someone who will take your phone, and a str…

App updates has always struck me as the big one. I can't turn them off, I can't easily validate them, and there's little preventing an update just for my device being shipped.

Without fail I was always getting carrier “upgrades” before big protests and police sweeps. It became my warning signal.

Once the virus hit the news in Wuhan, and the protests started to dial down the updates got fewer and fewer. And with the closing of the border I haven’t gotten a carrier upgrade in months. As part of the 2 million + crowd I know I’m tracked like a rat. But that’s how cellphones work

Re: The FBI Should Stop Attacking Encryption

#30

Post by laurent92 »

lbblack wrote: post #25
cm2187 wrote: post #8

Another argument against the "going dark" claim is that before smartphones and the internet, the only conversations the FBI could monitor was through phonelines and mail. These were known to be easily monitored and I doubt there was much more criminal activity happening through those then than now. I would argue that the conversations that have gone online are the interactions that were previously happening in-person…

I find it extremely alarming that law enforcement almost everywhere around the world is attempting to undermine almost a century-fold of legitimate mathematics and science with regards to encryption and cryptography. It's a tad embarrassing that lawmakers (who aren't even computer scientists like c'mon are we for real here?) somehow forgot how and who broke the Enigma Machine. Alan Turing did that. Same thing with th…

We need to make it strategic to hide our communications. The day the CIA decides that [place any enemy] has routers all over the place in US territory and that their spying is bad, they will mandate the use of Tor instead of discouraging it. We don’t need to be at war, but we need a capable enemy.
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