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The Waste of Daylight

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Re: The Waste of Daylight

#71

Post by rhino369 »

quicklime wrote: post #15
ogre_codes wrote: post #3

I try to keep my sleep schedule so I wake up shortly after daybreak for exactly this reason. I love natural light and loath sleeping through it. I've considered writing an app that sets an alarm to sunset and a reminder 9 hours prior to sunset so I can always wake with the sun and have plenty of sleep. Should be pretty simple I just haven't gotten around to it. (Though personally, I'd prefer it were a personal choice…

Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start wor…

Our system was originally based on noon, not midnight.

I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I don't know anyone who plans their day based on when the sun rose.

You'd have 3+ hour swings in what time meant from December to June.

Seems worse than even daylight savings time.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#72

Post by Philadelphia »

strbean wrote: post #52
Philadelphia wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article on the many medical downsides of permanent Daylight Savings Time https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/10/30/marco-rubios-time-m...

That articles take the mountains of evidence that changing schedules is terrible for our health, and misrepresents it as evidence that switching to permanent DST would be bad for our health. There are tons of terrible norms in our schedules that are harmful for people's health, but switching the clock around twice a year simply confounds and complicates any attempts to fix them. For example: > To counter chronic slee…

As the article makes very clear, the problem isn’t the change, but DST not aligning with circadian rhythms. DST is fundamentally hostile to human health. The entire second half of the article, starting just before the section labeled “Time Out of Time,” goes into the science on this. Conclusions:

“‘It’s not one hour twice a year. It’s a misalignment of our biologic clocks for eight months of the year,’ says Beth Ann Malow, professor of neurology and pediatrics at Vanderbilt University.”

“The American Academy of Sleep Medicine published a position statement on the subject in October. ‘Permanent, year-round standard time is the best choice to most closely match our circadian sleep-wake cycle,’ said lead author M. Adeel Rishi, a specialist at the Mayo Clinic.”

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#73

Post by anigbrowl »

User23 wrote: post #28
hourislate wrote: post #23

I would vote for any Presidential Candidate and House Representative regardless of party on the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else.

This actually happened in the ‘70s and it sucked so hard it got repealed in less than a year[1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight...

There are probably better articles available than this self-consciously smug one.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#74

Post by tzs »

xmprt wrote: post #34
quicklime wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start wor…

That would mean variable length days right? Sounds a bit like a nightmare.

It would be a bit of a nightmare for makers of mechanical clocks. For nearly everyone else if their clocks automatically handled it, I can't think of many people that would notice that the interval from a given time one day to the same time the next day varies slightly from day to day.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#75

Post by toast0 »

echelon wrote: post #7

For those that want to make a permanent change, let's stop talking about "DST". That's too confusing for a lot of people, and results in many favoring the wrong outcome. We should instead ask people if they want "summertime" or "wintertime" sunrise and sunset. Wintertime proponents use the animosity against the time change to argue against DST, but they seldom mention this means an earlier sunset. This comes down to…

> We should instead ask people if they want "summertime" or "wintertime" sunrise and sunset.

As a near Seattlite, this question makes it even more confusing. It doesn't matter what you do to the clock in winter, the sun is up for 8.5 hours, you can't have it up when you leave for work and when you get home for work; and if your commute is long enough, you won't see it from home at all; anyway, it's going to be cloudy so tough. In the summer, the sun is up for 16 hours; again you can do whatever you want with the clock, and the sun will be up.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#76

Post by johnhenry »

anigbrowl wrote: post #73
User23 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually happened in the ‘70s and it sucked so hard it got repealed in less than a year[1]. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/us-tried-year-round-daylight...

There are probably better articles available than this self-consciously smug one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_Un...

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#77

Post by Rule35 »

tptacek wrote: post #69
Rule35 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyone in the world changing their clocks is easier than having a summer schedule at a business where they open one hour earlier? Many businesses have different schedules on the weekend, I think people could cope with summer hours. Especially since they already do - even with the time change many businesses are open longer. For something so unpopular, how do places that don't do the time change get by? Why isn't…

So everyone in the world changing their clocks is easier than having a summer schedule at a business where they open one hour earlier? Yes.

No. My local swimming pool disagrees. Saskatchewan disagrees.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#78

Post by sjburt »

rhino369 wrote: post #71
quicklime wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start wor…

Our system was originally based on noon, not midnight. I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I don't know anyone who plans their day based on when the sun rose. You'd have 3+ hour swings in what time meant from December to June. Seems worse than even daylight savings time.

After decades of using an alarm clock and sleeping in a dark room, a few years ago I began going to bed consistently around 10pm and allowing natural light to wake me up. It has really improved the quality of my sleep and my feeling of restedness in the morning.

Of course, this means the time I wake up does vary throughout the year, but the time change helps keep it more consistent and even in the middle of winter, waking up at 7:30 or so give me plenty of time to get to work.

I do know people that use lighted alarm clocks and report similar results, but that's clearly just an imitation of the real thing.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#79

Post by philwelch »

hourislate wrote: post #23

I would vote for any Presidential Candidate and House Representative regardless of party on the promise of leaving the clocks on DST all year around. That's all they would have to do to get my vote....nothing else.

Well, here’s a list of Senators for you: https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2021/3/rubio-c...

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#80

Post by philwelch »

rhino369 wrote: post #71
quicklime wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, and I've also thought about writing the same app. I've always wondered why our system of time is built around the point of "midnight", when what we really care about is "sunrise". DST is an ugly hack that we use on top of our midnight-based time system to roughly approximate a constant sunrise time. Imagine if 00:00 was defined as the time that the sun rises. You could set your alarm to 00:00 and start wor…

Our system was originally based on noon, not midnight. I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I don't know anyone who plans their day based on when the sun rose. You'd have 3+ hour swings in what time meant from December to June. Seems worse than even daylight savings time.

> I don't think most people really care about sunrise. Humans don't seem to naturally rise with the sun. I don't know anyone who plans their day based on when the sun rose.

Probably everyone you know habitually uses artificial lighting.

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