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Gitlab default branch name changes to main

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Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#161

Post by 1123581321 »

oap_bram wrote: post #159
1123581321 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an employer or coworker doesn’t agree to whatever is your latest demand, “you” would start a campaign to get them fired or contact their customers to try to lose them business. Happens regularly.

I mean, that would imply you would prefer a term that is in a way discriminatory to a particular group right? Not in bad faith, but it seems you kind off admitted that there is some evil in doing so, and that you're willing to do it. Also, I wouldn't do that. Emancipating an actual workforce or colleagues would be my solution, not making the company suffer under it.

No, but that’s the reasoning you would use, that anyone disagreeing with you must be evil or discriminatory.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#162

Post by ec109685 »

macspoofing wrote: post #158

Yeah, I get it. It is a necessary change just so you take this of the table and not deal with the sporadic complaints that would come. Keeping the 'master' or 'master-slave' (in context of HA) terms just isn't worth potentially offending someone, or losing a sale, or getting bad press. We changed our verbage a couple years in our product as well just for that reason (Master-Slave to Primary-Secondary). The previous c…

The terms whitelist and blacklist aren’t very precise. The better terms allow list, deny list or something that more concretely describes the auth model are actually helpful.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#163

Post by oap_bram »

cobraetor wrote: post #143
oap_bram wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people in our society that actually have a negative relationship to these terms that we commonly use in our profession. Psychologically, it can be harder to be part of a group of people or a profession when you have to use these terms, therefor lowering accessibility. This can be because of stigma enforcing terminology (such is the case of master/slave for some people). These are usually not effec…

Please stop speaking up on behalf of African Americans without consulting their own opinion on this matter. I'm one and not even my Black friends care about this silly posturing from White progressives. We are frankly getting tired of this virtue signalling while the American society doesn't give a shit about actual Black problems. What is "rationality without empathy"? Have you tried getting off that armchair and tr…

Yes I have. Very weird for you to assume I don't. I don't live in America, however I am constantly reminded of my country's (The Netherlands) colonial past (you know, the spice trading, genocide inducing, slave trading one) and the repercussions of that. My city's suburban neighborhoods are filled with people of lower class of all different types of ethnicities. I've done as much as I could in the last few years to emancipate them, and as such I have ran into these "language problems" before, even in Dutch, even in different places than tech.

To act as if our community does not have those issues, or to think that I do not have anything meaningful to say because I'm in an "armchair" doesn't make sense. I'm not American, I'm not speaking on behalf of African Americans, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my own experience.

I don't necessarily think this will persuade you to think differently however, so yeah. Keep your opinion, but don't assume my circumstance based on your subjective experience.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#164

Post by macspoofing »

oap_bram wrote: post #16

I for one think it's great that people are willing to make things a little more accessible for more people. If people want to be part of our community of developers I think it's great that these organizations listen to people who might have a problem with certain terminology. Even though I don't have a problem with those terms, I think it's still worth evaluating if they're worth keeping if it makes it harder for som…

>There's also legitimate reasons to why these changes are necessary outside of some loud obnoxious screams from certain SJW-like people, that yes, are annoying to hear. Some of the response from our community to "push back against this" is just equally weird, tone deaf and childish however.

I understand your perspective. I'm not against changing the term. We changed it in our product a few years ago (master-slave to primary-secondary) as well ... primarily because even if you offend one (current or potential) customer it's just not a hill worth dying on.

But to address your point though, I wish there was some acknowledgment by 'the SJWs' (as you put it) that even if the term is archaic and should change, the tech community simply used a descriptive dictionary term for a particular architecture, and therefore the term is wholly unconnected to 'white supremacy' or 'systemic racism' or 'unconscious bias'. But for many who raise these issues, there is no good-will or charity. And that's why there is pushback. Many people don't want to accept the position that they were purposely insulting other people when these terms were in widespread use.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#165

Post by ec109685 »

elric wrote: post #48

I would like to point out that it's perfectly OK to have master/slave relations between computers, hard disks and git branches. The only place where it's problematic is between humans. Perhaps we would do well to remember that words can have different meanings in different contexts. It's nice to try to be considerate of people who are sensitive to certain issues, but at the same time they would do well to limit their…

Master / slave are catch all terms versus more precise ones that represent the exact relationship of two systems.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#167

Post by macspoofing »

ec109685 wrote: post #162
macspoofing wrote: post #158

Yeah, I get it. It is a necessary change just so you take this of the table and not deal with the sporadic complaints that would come. Keeping the 'master' or 'master-slave' (in context of HA) terms just isn't worth potentially offending someone, or losing a sale, or getting bad press. We changed our verbage a couple years in our product as well just for that reason (Master-Slave to Primary-Secondary). The previous c…

The terms whitelist and blacklist aren’t very precise. The better terms allow list, deny list or something that more concretely describes the auth model are actually helpful.

Sure. The existing terms are a little quirky and you can make the argument that 'allow' and 'deny' lists make more sense ... but come on man, why be obtuse? You know that's not why these terms are being changed.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#168

Post by somedude895 »

macspoofing wrote: post #158

Yeah, I get it. It is a necessary change just so you take this of the table and not deal with the sporadic complaints that would come. Keeping the 'master' or 'master-slave' (in context of HA) terms just isn't worth potentially offending someone, or losing a sale, or getting bad press. We changed our verbage a couple years in our product as well just for that reason (Master-Slave to Primary-Secondary). The previous c…

> I wish we, the global community, didn't all have to pay for America's internal cultural hangups.

Can't wait for Disney to remove any references to the "Dark Side" in Star Wars, Harry Potter to rename the "Dark Arts" into the "Bad Arts" and Lord of the Rings' "Black Riders" to become the "Evil Horsemen."

Nobody ever used to connect the term "blacklist" to race. But common sense doesn't seem to play a role anymore.

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#169

Post by noxer »

macspoofing wrote: post #158

Yeah, I get it. It is a necessary change just so you take this of the table and not deal with the sporadic complaints that would come. Keeping the 'master' or 'master-slave' (in context of HA) terms just isn't worth potentially offending someone, or losing a sale, or getting bad press. We changed our verbage a couple years in our product as well just for that reason (Master-Slave to Primary-Secondary). The previous c…

Sounds like justification for capitulating to the woke nonsense and cancel culture to me.

>....feels like we're now just looking for things to be offended by

Exactly, no one should have ever listen to this nonsense. There is no end goal here being offended is the goal. Just imagine the millions of man-hours* of non-productive work this will cause over the next decades.

*nothing here lol

Re: Gitlab default branch name changes to main

#170

Post by ec109685 »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #135
av8avenger wrote: post #81

Are there actually any devs out there that are really offended and feel excluded or worse than others because the default git branch is called master? I work in a fairly small company, but if i think of all the things we'd have to change in our infrastructure to exclude all of those offending words (like Black- and White-Lists), we'd probably be busy for a couple of weeks.

How is blacklist and whitelist offensive now? It seems that some people have nothing better to do than make trouble for the sake of it.

It reinforces black is bad and white is good.

Also, deny list and allow list are more precise terms anyway.

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