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Understanding Coinbase

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Re: Understanding Coinbase

#61
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Coinbase give you a wallet? What am I missing?

You don't have the private keys. If coinbase loses them, you're out of money. Possibly. They're insured supposedly, but if you have your own private keys then the only entity you have to deal with in this case is yourself (this can be both a positive and a negative, depending on how careful you are)

For the average person, Coinbase is less likely to lose your coins than you are to lose your private key or get hacked.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#62
post #41
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase is more about turning non-crypto currencies into crypto currencies while UNI/SUSHI are more about turning crypto currencies into different crypto currencies. In my POV, there's only two ways to get into crypto: - Centralized exchanges with KYC - Mining Coinbase is a KYC centralized exchange and enables people to turn their bank account $$s into crypto. Uniswap and Sushiswap are only relevant once someone has…

bisq and p2p exchanges exist but yeah buying from miners/mining is the safest way to get into crypto

Bisq is surprisingly smooth if you want to exchange fiat to crypto without intermediate centralized exchange. Great to see a solid implementation of colored bitcoins in the wild with great UX.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#63
post #8
post #2

The biggest threat to Coinbase are decentralized exchanges like Uniswap & Sushiswap. During the peak of DeFi summer, Uniswap handled more trading volume than Coinbase. [0] Uniswap airdropped its token $UNI to all users on Sept 17, 2020. Uniswap is already at a $17 billion market cap. Coinbase is expected to IPO at ~$100 billion. [0] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/data/decentralized-finance/de...

How's the liquidity/UX/fees on decentralized exchanges these days? Last I heard they were pretty lacking in those aspects.

Every order is a market order.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#64
post #2

The biggest threat to Coinbase are decentralized exchanges like Uniswap & Sushiswap. During the peak of DeFi summer, Uniswap handled more trading volume than Coinbase. [0] Uniswap airdropped its token $UNI to all users on Sept 17, 2020. Uniswap is already at a $17 billion market cap. Coinbase is expected to IPO at ~$100 billion. [0] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/data/decentralized-finance/de...

Correct me if I am wrong, but those decentralized exchanges don't seem to allow converting a token to dollars/euros/other currencies or vice versa. At some point the ecosystem needs to interact with banks for on and off ramps, and that is where Coinbase excels.

Bisq does exactly that and looks quiet promising.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#65
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can transfer from Coinbase to your own wallet.

Until you can't.

Uh that'd be stealing and would make them immediately lose credibility. But if you're really concerned about it, move funds to your wallet as soon as you buy.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMMs are quite a different beast than posted-order exchanges. These are more like ballast systems, yes, as seen in large ships, than anything else I could describe. It has revolutionized trading and liquidity without exactly being a panacea, but its pretty damn close. They’re pretty good, and it is an active area of development to be better. Transaction fees can range from $.01 to $150.

>These are more like ballast systems, yes, as seen in large ships, than anything else I could describe. can you elaborate on this?

The basic form of AMMs involve "liquidity pools" that contain two assets. The equivalent amount of AssetA and AssetB by value, this value ratio is set by the initial pool creator but if its out of line with market expectations people will buy and sell until it is corrected. For illustrative purposes lets just say Ether (Ethereum native token) and Link (from the Chainlink project).

So this pool is really two pools, in the ballast analogy think of each as two separate silos next to each other filled with liquid evenly. When someone outside of this wants the LINK token, they must bring Ether, which adds Ether to the Ether silo, and subtracts Link from the Link silo. Despite the quantity changing, value wise the remaining Link has gone up in value proportionally, which is kept track of simply because the system understands that the ratio has changed. The ratio winds up matching market prices everywhere. It will match the price of Link priced in Ether priced in dollars on all the other price tracking services. So that's pretty genius.

User experience wise, every order is essentially a market order, as there is no way to have different sized orders at certain price levels get matched. (you have to understand how posted-order exchanges work to understand that sentence, in traditional markets, volume has nothing to do with price movements it simply winds up having a 99% correlation by coincidence.) In AMM systems every trade moves the ratios based on the size of the order, and how big the silos are to begin with.

But that's where there is the permissionless nature of anyone being able to join the liquidity pool, and earn a portion of all trades that pass through it. So this aspect is more advanced than requiring professional market makers (or pretending they don't exist in crypto while being extorted by all centralized exchanges to contract with them, but never admitting to your community that they're there so that the regulators don't curb stomp you and your project).

So now, any community that wants liquidity can just create a liquidity pool, instead of begging exchanges to list their token and spamming Coinbase and Binance's twitter and telegram all day forever. It is completely permissionless, but now you've reached the edge of what that system can do. The further advances are all external, for example, you absolutely can create limit orders by just monitoring the ratio of a liquidity pool, the ABI of those smart contracts have a convenience function you can call. And also joining liquidity pools are incentivized by third parties, and this is what yield farming is. It is all the craze because it is intrinsically linked to the growth of AMM system's liquidity and volume. When you join a liquidity pool, you receive a liquidity pool share which is a new token that represents your % of the pool. The "LP" acronym is ironically the exact same function as a Limited Partner in a pe/hedge fund. This share is a bearer asset which can be deposited in other places that let you earn third party tokens that have their own utility and price. This is farming. You plant your share and earn a yield.

The final thing to point out is that the liquidity pools have cross liquidity pool routing.

So back to our example, Lets say you have Tether instead of Ether. The AMM systems will take your tether, route it through an existing Tether/Ether liquidity pool, your the Ether through the Ether/Link liquidity pool and give you Link. They will do 4-5 hops or more and judge the most liquid route.

So yet again, more advanced than posted-order exchanges because you don't have to beg for any particular trading pair, and you don't have to switch assets in advance manually.

If you understand this then you've made it to last summer. Where we are at now is that there are plenty of services that let you trade using liquidity between multiple AMMs, 1inch exchange is the most popular for that, the current developments are the ability to trade across multiple AMMs on multiple blockchains. But note, individuals build their own bots to do it whether a big project has made this easy for others or not.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#68
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase is more about turning non-crypto currencies into crypto currencies while UNI/SUSHI are more about turning crypto currencies into different crypto currencies. In my POV, there's only two ways to get into crypto: - Centralized exchanges with KYC - Mining Coinbase is a KYC centralized exchange and enables people to turn their bank account $$s into crypto. Uniswap and Sushiswap are only relevant once someone has…

Don't forget working for it by doing stuff and receiving payment in them. That's my personal philosophical favorite.

and yet, almost nobody does this. Because it's impractical so far. I would look forward to the day when it does become practical, but i cannot see when that may be.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#69
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase is more about turning non-crypto currencies into crypto currencies while UNI/SUSHI are more about turning crypto currencies into different crypto currencies. In my POV, there's only two ways to get into crypto: - Centralized exchanges with KYC - Mining Coinbase is a KYC centralized exchange and enables people to turn their bank account $$s into crypto. Uniswap and Sushiswap are only relevant once someone has…

Coinbase tells me there are no fees for crypto to crypto conversion, just when I initially buy crypto with cash. What does a decentralized exchange give me that beats that?

This will change in some years though. Conversion will cost less gas with L2. Things are progressing quickly on those problems. Dexs and liquidity pools will have near zero fees.

Personally, I think unless coinbase pivots, their current business model is not sustainable in the long term. But right now, coinbase is capturing value in a way that the early majority of crypto's adoption curve can digest.

Re: Understanding Coinbase

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget working for it by doing stuff and receiving payment in them. That's my personal philosophical favorite.

and yet, almost nobody does this. Because it's impractical so far. I would look forward to the day when it does become practical, but i cannot see when that may be.

It’s not that unfathomable, it’s just not something you’re about to get in place of a direct deposit any time soon. I’ve seen internet artists and musicians offer to take commission payment in crypto before. Assuming the ecological issues of cryptocurrencies are possible to sort out, this kind of peer-to-peer usage feels nearly ideal, especially when many smaller businesses have trust issues with internet peer to peer payment providers such as PayPal.
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