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Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

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Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What worries me is that COTS photo equipment increasingly comes with these algorithmic retouches that "over-represent" the data - or, put another way, bake its own interpretation into image, in a way that cannot be distinguished from source data. It's nice for a casual Instagrammer, but then a lot of science and engineering also gets done using COTS equipment. I worry that at some point, a lot of money will be burned…

I did a web search for "cots" and learned that a cot is... > a small usually collapsible bed often of fabric stretched on a frame But in this case, COTS is apparently... > commercial, off-the-shelf In other words "photo equipment" or "consumer/retail photo equipment." Upon further reading[0] it seems odd to use the term here, but maybe I'm misunderstanding something. It's often used for software and has a key phrase.…

I use it in a way it's used in disciplines that also work with specialty-built, or even custom-built equipment. Such as science, military and some types of engineering (e.g. aerospace). The first sentence of the linked article describes it:

"Commercial off-the-shelf or commercially available off-the-shelf[1] (COTS) products are packaged solutions[buzzword] which are then adapted to satisfy the needs of the purchasing organization, rather than the commissioning of custom-made, or bespoke, solutions."

So for example, a research team may decide to not spend money on expensive scientific cameras for monitoring experiment, and instead opt to buy an expensive - but still much cheaper - DSLR sold to photographers, or strap a couple of iPhones 15 they found in the drawer (it's the future, they're all using iPhones 17, which is two generations behind the newest one). That's using COTS equipment. COTS is typically sold to less sophisticated users, but is often useful for less sophisticated needs of more sophisticated users too. But if COTS cameras start to accrue built-in algorithms that literally fake data, it may be a while before such researchers realize they're looking at photos where most of the pixels don't correspond to observable reality, in a complicated way they didn't expect.

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#113
post #6

As a metrologist (and photographer), the difficulty with these techniques is that they can over-represent the information contained within an image; they present an image of what was "probably" there, rather than representing what was. These aren't so different from our own brains, which remember what we thought we saw, rather than the light that reached our retinas. These methods are already in extensive use (most s…

I take a lot of pictures of mountain scenery. I blew up one of these that had an interesting composition consisting of rocks/fields/mountain peaks. On inspection the resulting image had substantially changed the composition by increasing the size of a field relative to all other objects.

It’s much easier for the model to blow up uninteresting pieces of the photograph than interesting pieces.

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#114
post #6

As a metrologist (and photographer), the difficulty with these techniques is that they can over-represent the information contained within an image; they present an image of what was "probably" there, rather than representing what was. These aren't so different from our own brains, which remember what we thought we saw, rather than the light that reached our retinas. These methods are already in extensive use (most s…

What worries me is that COTS photo equipment increasingly comes with these algorithmic retouches that "over-represent" the data - or, put another way, bake its own interpretation into image, in a way that cannot be distinguished from source data. It's nice for a casual Instagrammer, but then a lot of science and engineering also gets done using COTS equipment. I worry that at some point, a lot of money will be burned…

>It's nice for a casual Instagrammer, but then a lot of science and engineering also gets done using COTS equipment. I worry that at some point, a lot of money will be burned, a lot of time wasted, or even lives lost, because someone didn't notice they've based the conclusions of their scientific experiment/engineering analysis on such "computer best guesses".

Most research papers are crap anyway, in a much more fundamental way and for much worse reasons/bad incentives with far more impact than "computational imaging".

This is probably the last thing I'd worry about when thinking about "millions/time/wasted" for some research.

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#115
post #6

As a metrologist (and photographer), the difficulty with these techniques is that they can over-represent the information contained within an image; they present an image of what was "probably" there, rather than representing what was. These aren't so different from our own brains, which remember what we thought we saw, rather than the light that reached our retinas. These methods are already in extensive use (most s…

What worries me is that COTS photo equipment increasingly comes with these algorithmic retouches that "over-represent" the data - or, put another way, bake its own interpretation into image, in a way that cannot be distinguished from source data. It's nice for a casual Instagrammer, but then a lot of science and engineering also gets done using COTS equipment. I worry that at some point, a lot of money will be burned…

It has already happened. Back in 2013, Xerox had a copier that changed numbers, for similar reasons.

https://www.theregister.com/2013/08/06/xerox_copier_flaw_mea...

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#116
post #66
post #36

Topaz Gigapixel is quite good though despite the negative comments in the article. I'd rather give my money to Topaz for this one feature than keep paying Adobe subscription fees indefinitely

I've been using it for a year. Each version gets a little better than the last and it gets regular updates. It also has the rather large benefit of not being tied to Creative Cloud, which is one of the worst bits of software ever made.

"worst bits of software ever made"? That's harsh. But didn't they lose people's data recently? My memory is blurry.

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#118
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. If there's not enough information available, there's not enough information, full stop. Plausible (i.e. "good looking" or "believable") results are not the same as actual data, which is why enhance wouldn't work on vehicle licence plates or faces for example. Sure, the result might be a plausible looking face or text, but it's still not a valid representation of what was originally captured. That's th…

No there certainly is a chance for ML to improve here. Let’s take the classic example of enhancing a blurry photo to get a license plate. Humans may not be able to see much in the blur, but an AI trained on many different highly down-res’d images could at least give you plausible outcomes using far less data than a human brain would be able to say anything with confidence. You wouldn’t hold it up as the absolute trut…

[deleted]

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#119
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using it for a year. Each version gets a little better than the last and it gets regular updates. It also has the rather large benefit of not being tied to Creative Cloud, which is one of the worst bits of software ever made.

"worst bits of software ever made"? That's harsh. But didn't they lose people's data recently? My memory is blurry.

I don't know about losing data, but if you install the base Creative Cloud application on Mac, a whole bunch of processes run in the background that can't be easily terminated.

Re: Adobe Photoshop's 'super resolution' made my jaw hit the floor

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already the case. I rarely have a need to take out my SLR - it's just too bulky to have a reason for it, unless I'm going on an adventure where photography is one of the or the main purpose. I've gone on hiking trips where my "challenge" was to only use my phone camera. It wasn't much of a challenge for landscapes.

> It wasn't much of a challenge for landscapes. Well if you collapse the problem space to a single point that corresponds to a phone's standard field of view, then it won't be a problem... But what if you wanted to catch a photo of a rare bird in flight at 500mm equivalent, or a surfer caught at 1/4000th of a second?

Bird-watching and action photography are both niche activities, I think, yes? :)
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