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Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

theguardian.com

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Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#31

Post by beckman466 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #28

Politicians like these are why innovation is so slow. Google was primed and ready to try something new but it was just too different for these people to handle. I don't even like every aspect of the Google city plan but it would have been an invaluable experiment.

Why do you think corporations using black-box technology on human guinea pigs in a city-size scale is an exciting ‘experiment’?

Innovation is slow because science is constantly commoditized and recommoditized using violent means by a partnership between capitalist politicians and capitalist firms; the ‘intellectual property’ system is the tool (trade secrets > copyrights > patents).

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#32

Post by peeters »

throw0101a wrote: post #8
Elessar wrote: post #5

Toronto has a history of planning to do something with its waterfront (Port Lands / Quayside etc), and then never enacting those plans due to short-term politics vs actual vision. This is just more of the same. This article is reading far too much into Google. I suppose it is the trend to get eyeballs by hating on tech giants. Enjoy this article about a monorail - from 2011. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tor…

> Toronto has a history of planning to do something with its waterfront (Port Lands / Quayside etc) Besides the fact that a brand new island is being built: * https://portlandsto.ca/construction/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villiers_Island > Enjoy this article about a monorail - from 2011. How many people took Doug Ford seriously about anything?

*Rob Ford

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#33

Post by JanisL »

foobiekr wrote: post #29
rubyist5eva wrote: post #14

As someone that lives in Toronto and is moving out in the middle of the month to go back home near family. The idea that Toronto is going to focus on "affordability" is laughable. It's one of the most expensive cities to live in in the world, and the incompetent city council, mayor and all the way up to the provincial government are doing absolutely everything they can to keep it that way - mostly without even realiz…

I would like to learn more about this. What are some sources I could look into?

Look at the credit default swap markets, these gives you information into what people are actually willing to bet money on regarding currencies.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#34

Post by vvG94KbDUtRa »

akamaka wrote: post #25
belval wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a very constructive reply, how about you give us the rebuttal?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=personalfinancecanada+house+p... There are literally thousands of threads that repeat the same arguments over and over. The original poster may as well be quoting any of them without any new insight into the economics behind it. Once you’ve been on reddit for a while, you realize how pointless it is to engage in these discussions since people only bring in their emotions and not much da…

Like yourself for instance

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#35

Post by akamaka »

neom wrote: post #21
akamaka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from r/canada? For those not familiar, this is a typical example of the angry reddit posts on the topic of housing prices that get produced daily. I was going to post a rebuttal, but you can go there to see this same debate repeated a thousand times over.

I don't think it's just a Canadian thing, I do live in Toronto and I do hear this rant all the time - however, I also heard this exact same rant when I lived in NYC, Seoul, Edinburgh.

It seems to be a Canadian thing to not realize it’s happening all over the world.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#36

Post by _spduchamp »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #24
rohannair wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 million people live in Toronto. This is like asking if you can get into politics in Chicago and change things.

Of 3 million residents, maybe a few thousand - at most - will be full-time politically committed and active. The problem isn't the numbers, it's breaking into the patronage and power networks. That's not a numbers game. It's a relationship, influence, and networking game. And some elements will be corrupt, while others will be about carefully cultivated appearance management.

We were so close to having ranked ballots for Toronto which is exactly what we need to improve accountabilituy, but Dougie scrapped that for all Ontario cities. Hopefully we'll get things back on track. https://www.unlockdemocracy.ca/123ontario https://www.rabit.ca/

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#37

Post by JanisL »

konjin wrote: post #9
dade_ wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is Waterfront Toronto’s actual mandate, clean up the land, build the infrastructure, sell it to developers aligned to the vision. Instead they got all whimsical and got the idea in their heads that they are going to change the world. Fooled by the FAANG. They need to get back to their knitting, not become social justice eco-warriors. Otherwise this whole project will fail and we will end up with a damned casino…

Yes, but failing upwards is what social justice eco-warriors do best. Just look at every city they have managed for more than a decade.

What do you mean by "failing upwards" exactly?

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#39

Post by mymythisisthis »

beckman466 wrote: post #31
jimmaswell wrote: post #28

Politicians like these are why innovation is so slow. Google was primed and ready to try something new but it was just too different for these people to handle. I don't even like every aspect of the Google city plan but it would have been an invaluable experiment.

Why do you think corporations using black-box technology on human guinea pigs in a city-size scale is an exciting ‘experiment’? Innovation is slow because science is constantly commoditized and recommoditized using violent means by a partnership between capitalist politicians and capitalist firms; the ‘intellectual property’ system is the tool (trade secrets > copyrights > patents).

Innovation is slow because many of the new technologies aren't that transformative.

Some technologies are very transformative. The Internet in 1990s killed much of the paper based printing. When was the last time someone bough a physical accounting ledger? A newspaper? A printed calendar? An encyclopedia? But, it doesn't take long for people to internalize the change, and go about their daily lives. Not thinking about what happened.

Most technologies are just incremental changes. Or, new digital technologies slapped onto old brick and mortar hardware, as upgrades.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#40

Post by humanorgan »

akamaka wrote: post #25
belval wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a very constructive reply, how about you give us the rebuttal?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=personalfinancecanada+house+p... There are literally thousands of threads that repeat the same arguments over and over. The original poster may as well be quoting any of them without any new insight into the economics behind it. Once you’ve been on reddit for a while, you realize how pointless it is to engage in these discussions since people only bring in their emotions and not much da…

This is not a rebuttal. Please give an actual rebuttal.
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