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Overview of Early Electric Cars

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#21

Post by samcheng »

bobthepanda wrote: post #12
rsj_hn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most people would consider only charging at home an advantage or "convenience". If you even need to go to a charging station once and spend a half hour to an hour there, that becomes very inconvenient, even if you only need to do that once a month. Most people would like to have a charging station always nearby so that it becomes stateless for them, so that they don't need to think about how much they d…

Also this assumes you have a driveway that has a charge point hooked up. This does nothing for, say, most apartment buildings which don’t have charge points, or people who park on the street.

That’s true; we’re going to want a substantial improvement in charging infrastructure over the next decade.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#22

Post by TylerE »

mettamage wrote: post #16
clouddrover wrote: post #2

The problem is the same as its always been: the batteries still aren't quite good enough. Batteries still need to become cheaper, safer, more energy dense, more durable, and faster charging. But the good news is that batteries are improving year by year. Probably by 2025 there will be large scale production of EVs with solid-state batteries with better energy density, safety, and charging speeds. It'll also be good t…

Silly question: to what extent can you extend the range of a car by adding solar panels on the roof in cloudy conditions? If that adds range of 10% extra, then why not do it? I figured they thought about this a long time ago, so I'm just wondering.

Not nearly enough. Solar panels, under absolutely perfect conditions (perfect angling, no clouds, etc) produce about 15w per square foot. Even if you covered every bit of the upward facing surfaces, including the hood, with panels, that's going to peak at about 1kw of input - and since you'll be off axis all the time it'll be less than that.

A Tesla battery pack is 100kw/h. So under perfect conditions you'd need 100 hours of charging to get one charge.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#23

Post by jjav »

geoduck14 wrote: post #18
clouddrover wrote: post #2

The problem is the same as its always been: the batteries still aren't quite good enough. Batteries still need to become cheaper, safer, more energy dense, more durable, and faster charging. But the good news is that batteries are improving year by year. Probably by 2025 there will be large scale production of EVs with solid-state batteries with better energy density, safety, and charging speeds. It'll also be good t…

In my opinion, we are trying to solve the "EV range issue" all wrong. We are looking at gas cars, and asking "how can we do the same thing, but with electricity" - and we get a substandard result. What we SHOULD do is: take a step back and ask "what do we REALLY want to achieve". We don't really want long range and fast charge. We DO want worry-free power wherever we choose to go. It isn't a novel concept to suggest:…

> inductive charging from the road into the car

Society can't (for $REASONS) even get potholes reliably fixed in roads. The probability of something like installing inductive charging on every mile of interstate is effectively zero.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#25

Post by mattlondon »

It is interesting to see sentiment change over the years on hacker news.

First EVs were too expensive. Then they were too slow/couldn't tow. Then the range was too small.

Now people are griping that they can't "refuel" in 5 mins.

I guess we will see what the next excuse becomes for people to continue polluting and why EVs "aren't ready" for their hypothetical/once-a-year/niche needs.

Sigh.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#26

Post by Nition »

TylerE wrote: post #19
geoduck14 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, we are trying to solve the "EV range issue" all wrong. We are looking at gas cars, and asking "how can we do the same thing, but with electricity" - and we get a substandard result. What we SHOULD do is: take a step back and ask "what do we REALLY want to achieve". We don't really want long range and fast charge. We DO want worry-free power wherever we choose to go. It isn't a novel concept to suggest:…

That's insane. Inductive charging is wildly inefficient. On typical phone chargers efficiency is about 60-70% max..and it goes down with distance.

So what we really need is a big network of overhead wires, trolleybus style.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#27

Post by lurkmurk »

mattlondon wrote: post #25

It is interesting to see sentiment change over the years on hacker news. First EVs were too expensive. Then they were too slow/couldn't tow. Then the range was too small. Now people are griping that they can't "refuel" in 5 mins. I guess we will see what the next excuse becomes for people to continue polluting and why EVs "aren't ready" for their hypothetical/once-a-year/niche needs. Sigh.

But all of those are still true. I would argue that public transport should replace cars for commute which is most of the "non-niche" usage.

Public transport can't get you anywhere, on your own terms? Sounds familiar.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#28

Post by samcheng »

rsj_hn wrote: post #11
clouddrover wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how can it be less time overall? If you can charge at home overnight (or at work during the day) then you won't need to go anywhere else.

If a car never breaks down, then you don't need to waste time at a mechanic, either.

This metaphor doesn’t make sense to me. As a matter of course, a gasoline car needs gasoline; unless you live on a farm with delivered fuel, that means going to the gas station for it.

An electric car needs only electricity to operate, which is already distributed via wires to everyone’s home.

Both cars need tires; electric cars also need significantly less scheduled maintenance. No oil changes, no timing belt, etc.

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#29

Post by clouddrover »

mettamage wrote: post #16
clouddrover wrote: post #2

The problem is the same as its always been: the batteries still aren't quite good enough. Batteries still need to become cheaper, safer, more energy dense, more durable, and faster charging. But the good news is that batteries are improving year by year. Probably by 2025 there will be large scale production of EVs with solid-state batteries with better energy density, safety, and charging speeds. It'll also be good t…

Silly question: to what extent can you extend the range of a car by adding solar panels on the roof in cloudy conditions? If that adds range of 10% extra, then why not do it? I figured they thought about this a long time ago, so I'm just wondering.

It depends how efficient the car is and how efficient the solar panels are.

Here are some examples of solar cars and their solar range estimates:

- Aptera: https://www.aptera.us/never-charge

- Lightyear One: https://lightyear.one/technology

- Sono Motors Sion: https://sonomotors.com/en/solar-integration/

- Toyota Prius experimental prototype: https://newatlas.com/toyota-prius-solar-roof/60461/

- The Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a small panel as an option, but you won't get much range out of it: https://pvbuzz.com/hyundai-ioniq-5-solar-panels/

Re: Overview of Early Electric Cars

#30

Post by Someone »

Those cars were popular (especially with women) because you didn’t have to hand-crank them.

Because of that it has been said that what made gasoline cars take over was the invention of the electric starter for gasoline cars.

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