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Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

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Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#231

Post by keymone »

rawtxapp wrote: post #48
mrkramer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satoshi already envisioned smart contracts that's why he created and designed Bitcoin Script Language "The design supports a tremendous variety of possible transaction types that I designed years ago. Escrow transactions, bonded contracts, third party arbitration, multi-party signature, etc."[1] [1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195.msg1611#msg1611

One limitation of Bitcoin script is that it's not turing complete. But there are sidechains like rsk with defi apps like sovryn that bring smart contracts and defi to BTC.

Turing completeness is an anti feature in financial system like bitcoin. And pretty much zero contracts currently deployed to ethereum require Turing completeness. It’s just a buzzword to sell you this gigantic pre-mine scam.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#232

Post by jobigoud »

chrisco255 wrote: post #210
cachvico wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less-popular and original, interestingly in this case.

"original" is a matter of debate. For example, which chain is the original Bitcoin: BTC or BCH? Prior to the fork, they both share the same history. The community aligned more behind BTC but surely there's a fork of the multiverse somewhere in the space-time continuum where the community rallied behind BCH and gave it more hashing power.

For ETC I don't think there is much debate. The original Ethereum paper and protocol still describes ETC whereas if you want to implement an ETH node that verifies the blockchain you need to write special code to introduce the block containing the collection of transactions reverting the hack.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#233

Post by keymone »

cachvico wrote: post #185
viraptor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also barely computes anything. It's closer to distributed consensus. (Distributed tricky consensus? - I acknowledge there's a tiny bit of logic)

It can compute anything you want it to compute.

No, it really can’t. Unless you mean it in a sense that Minecraft is a Turing complete machine and can compute anything you want it to compute. Good luck computing anything non trivial.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#234

Post by everfree »

keymone wrote: post #230
jaimehrubiks wrote: post #21

Regardless of the current issues with the updates, gas prices, different opinions on the community, devs vs miners vs users... Am I the only one who thinks people underestimate Ethereum and its EVM invention? In 2013 this guy (who I think is a visionary) wrote a document with a proposal that led to the creation of a world-wide turing-complete distributed computer. And still, people are just starting to realize its po…

Sorry, plopping JavaScript on top of blockchain is not something I would call visionary. Smart contracts were there long before eth. Ethereum is a huge pre-mine scam with lots of promises and very little delivery. It’s got nice PR, but it’s really the PHP of cryptocurrencies. But of course almost everything else except bitcoin is much worse. Turing completeness is literally a bug in such system. It’s an anti-feature.…

Ethereum gets around the halting problem by using a "gas" model, where it halts your execution if you run out of gas before the program returns.

If Ethereum is actually the PHP of cryptocurrencies, that puts it in a great spot for adoption.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#235

Post by dsco »

keymone wrote: post #230
jaimehrubiks wrote: post #21

Regardless of the current issues with the updates, gas prices, different opinions on the community, devs vs miners vs users... Am I the only one who thinks people underestimate Ethereum and its EVM invention? In 2013 this guy (who I think is a visionary) wrote a document with a proposal that led to the creation of a world-wide turing-complete distributed computer. And still, people are just starting to realize its po…

Sorry, plopping JavaScript on top of blockchain is not something I would call visionary. Smart contracts were there long before eth. Ethereum is a huge pre-mine scam with lots of promises and very little delivery. It’s got nice PR, but it’s really the PHP of cryptocurrencies. But of course almost everything else except bitcoin is much worse. Turing completeness is literally a bug in such system. It’s an anti-feature.…

JavaScript powers much of the Internet today, and PHP too. When evaluating the effect of any given system or protocol - do you only analyze the design of its language - or its outcome?

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#236

Post by everfree »

keymone wrote: post #231
rawtxapp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One limitation of Bitcoin script is that it's not turing complete. But there are sidechains like rsk with defi apps like sovryn that bring smart contracts and defi to BTC.

Turing completeness is an anti feature in financial system like bitcoin. And pretty much zero contracts currently deployed to ethereum require Turing completeness. It’s just a buzzword to sell you this gigantic pre-mine scam.

I can't think of a single Ethereum dapp that could be implemented without an expressive scripting language.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#237

Post by _7fvc »

CameronNemo wrote: post #226
_7fvc wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think cryptocurrencies will replace fiat completely. They're still crypto. They have fixed rules. We still need currency "bridge" between crypto and the real world. Cryptocurrencies offer decentralized options which can address problems with money distribution.

Why can't they replace fiat? Why can't crypto be minted to represent real world assets (like batches of nuts or nickel, not magic pieces of paper)?

Because real world assets don't get minted like crypto. They are tied to physical world. They are volatile. Bitcoin produces a block every 10 minutes. It's a fairly precise schedule. On the other hand, real world assets grow and contract at unpredictable rates. Even gold mining fluctuates. The real world is volatile. The BTCUSD peg is free floating. It's also volatile.

Crypto is rigid. Real world is volatile. It's hard to create a stable peg between crypto and the real world. So some kinds of bridge currencies are necessary. Fiat or some forms of digital fiat will continue to exist.

Bitcoin is a deflationary (disinflationary) asset. The BTCUSD peg is volatile. We need better money instruments to reduce volatility. I think an inflationary crypto can help.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#238

Post by vincnetas »

gorgoiler wrote: post #150
jwolfe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that gold has a massive magical intrinsic value. That was also arbitrary.

It is hard to mine and hard to find. If you make a fresh piece of gold and show it to the world, you are proving that you have done some known — or at least bounded — amount of work. In gold’s case, that work is gas, electricity, and human labor. If someone shows up with gold that cost less to produce, the price goes down.

And exactly that happened to aluminium. After its discovery its cost was bigger than gold. Until more effective ways to ectract it were discovered. That does not mean that aluminium is useless.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#239

Post by keymone »

everfree wrote: post #236
keymone wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turing completeness is an anti feature in financial system like bitcoin. And pretty much zero contracts currently deployed to ethereum require Turing completeness. It’s just a buzzword to sell you this gigantic pre-mine scam.

I can't think of a single Ethereum dapp that could be implemented without an expressive scripting language.

Well, you’re misguided. It’s not the language, it’s platform features like kv store attached to blockchain that make these dapps possible to implement. And none of them require Turing completeness.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#240

Post by everfree »

throwaway4good wrote: post #195

It sounds like the Ethereum "community" is about decide whether it believes in proof of work or the cult of Vitalik.

The Ethereum dev team has been publicly committed to a PoS transition since the day Ethereum was launched. Anybody not aligned with this switch shouldn't have become a stakeholder in the protocol.
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