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RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

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Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#31

Post by skolsuper »

alexashka wrote: post #20
plorkyeran wrote: post #13

With four years of hindsight, the estimate of DBaaS and managed database hosting companies of being https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/03/10/mo... ), which means that assuming RethinkDB's estimates were correct, the market they wrote off as too small was actually about to explode into something much larger. That's not to say that they would have succeeded if they'd gone after that though; instead we…

MongoDB's stock price is quite remarkable, given how dismissive a lot of people (including myself) on HacherNews have been of their offering. It goes to show that HackerNews consensus != reality. I do wonder where/how Mongo makes their money - if anybody has some insight, please share.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/mongodb-inc-announc...

- Revenue: Total revenue was $150.8 million in the third quarter fiscal 2021, an increase of 38% year-over-year. Subscription revenue was $144.1 million, an increase of 39% year-over-year, and services revenue was $6.7 million, an increase of 19% year-over-year.

- Gross Profit: Gross profit was $104.7 million in the third quarter fiscal 2021, representing a 69% gross margin, compared to 71% in the year-ago period. Non-GAAP gross profit was $108.6 million, representing a 72% non-GAAP gross margin.

- Loss from Operations: Loss from operations was $58.1 million in the third quarter fiscal 2021, compared to $38.7 million in the year-ago period. Non-GAAP loss from operations was $16.0 million, compared to $14.3 million in the year-ago period.

- Net Loss: Net loss was $72.7 million, or $1.22 per share, based on 59.4 million weighted-average shares outstanding in the third quarter fiscal 2021. This compares to $42.4 million, or $0.75 per share, based on 56.4 million weighted-average shares outstanding, in the year-ago period. Non-GAAP net loss was $18.2 million or $0.31 per share. This compares to $14.6 million, or $0.26 per share, in the year-ago period.

- Cash Flow: As of October 31, 2020, MongoDB had $966.8 million in cash, cash equivalents, short-term investments and restricted cash. During the three months ended October 31, 2020, MongoDB used $8.1 million of cash from operations, $5.6 million in capital expenditures and $1.2 million in principal repayments of finance leases, leading to negative free cash flow of $14.9 million, compared to negative free cash flow of $13.1 million in the year-ago period.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#32

Post by [deleted] »

nostrademons wrote: post #16
billconan wrote: post #4

is the entire developer tool market bad, or just the db sector is bad? developer tool market seems to be the only one I'm familiar with as an engineer. If I were to start a business, I will probably also do something for this market.

Pretty much the entire sector is bad. In general, it's much better to be in a market where you customers cannot do you your job, not just one where they don't want to do your job. In the latter markets, they start asking "Why should I pay you to do something I can do myself?", or just start doing it themselves, and that holds down the price you can charge. This applies to a lot of familiar service businesses as well:…

[deleted]

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#33

Post by mekster »

hewrin10 wrote: post #29
alexashka wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB's stock price is quite remarkable, given how dismissive a lot of people (including myself) on HacherNews have been of their offering. It goes to show that HackerNews consensus != reality. I do wonder where/how Mongo makes their money - if anybody has some insight, please share.

HackerNews is wildly detached from reality

No, I think it's more truthful than any other place with bunch of noises.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#34

Post by abraxas »

This is akin to everyone’s dream to start a cozy, atmospheric coffee shop. These types of coffee bars fold very quickly or at best give founders years of servitude below minimum wage. The reason is that the type of behaviour this kind of establishment encourages - lounging, book reading, laptop work is exactly the opposite of the quick serve model that is conducive to high revenue. The customer loves this model, the owner hates it.

Analogous to it, the nosql DB market is the exact wrong market to enter. Large companies willing to pay big bucks for enterprise features will pay established vendors for the stodgy but battle tested stuff like Oracle or DB2. The hipster startup market pays nobody for anything as there is a myriad of free choices in every common flavour and the few that will pay will mostly do so to purchase managed hosting. And that’s only if their PoC built on your new and untrusted database ever makes it to production. And then it’s probably your cheapest tier. Don’t be selling to paupers!

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#36

Post by alexashka »

runawaybottle wrote: post #23
billconan wrote: post #4

is the entire developer tool market bad, or just the db sector is bad? developer tool market seems to be the only one I'm familiar with as an engineer. If I were to start a business, I will probably also do something for this market.

You know at some point in the last 20ish years, people really got used to the idea of free music. Once people get used to the idea of ‘free’, it’s like, good luck arguing against that. I don’t think something like VSCode should be free, or a single api call on any platform, etc. Absolutely nothing should be free because people get too used to the idea of free. It’s a human failure.

Has it occurred to you that paying for things is a recent, temporary mode of interaction between humans while free and good will is the default?

You have it confused - prices is an arguably necessary, temporary condition, until we get back to simply from everyone according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#37

Post by spfzero »

runawaybottle wrote: post #23
billconan wrote: post #4

is the entire developer tool market bad, or just the db sector is bad? developer tool market seems to be the only one I'm familiar with as an engineer. If I were to start a business, I will probably also do something for this market.

You know at some point in the last 20ish years, people really got used to the idea of free music. Once people get used to the idea of ‘free’, it’s like, good luck arguing against that. I don’t think something like VSCode should be free, or a single api call on any platform, etc. Absolutely nothing should be free because people get too used to the idea of free. It’s a human failure.

When you set the price at free, you set the value of the work represented, at zero.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#38

Post by mekster »

rapsey wrote: post #15
billconan wrote: post #4

is the entire developer tool market bad, or just the db sector is bad? developer tool market seems to be the only one I'm familiar with as an engineer. If I were to start a business, I will probably also do something for this market.

The problem is that this market is also one that is familiar to every other engineer. It's is a terrible one to get into because developers hate paying for their tools.

With a modest pricing, I pay for stuff like JetBrains (even the full package), Office 365, Photoshop and TablePlus as subscriptions and some other one time payments that boosted my productivity.

Stuff I don't pay is stuff I feel I can do better if I had some free time and rather gets in the way than properly solve problems and stuff that tries to charge more than what they're worth which can be said for many online developer services.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#39

Post by dreamcompiler »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #30
tdeck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about the developer tools and systems you use, then think "what would I expect to pay for these?" Chances are the answer is that you'd expect them to be free or you'd find something else. That's what makes it a bad market.

I think jetbrains, github, atlassian et al would like a word with you.

Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. It's not impossible to succeed in developer tools; it's just a lot harder than other markets. And you usually also need an accidental luck factor like being the perfect product at the perfect time.

Re: RethinkDB: why we failed (2017)

#40

Post by wishinghand »

nodesocket wrote: post #25
plorkyeran wrote: post #13

With four years of hindsight, the estimate of DBaaS and managed database hosting companies of being https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/03/10/mo... ), which means that assuming RethinkDB's estimates were correct, the market they wrote off as too small was actually about to explode into something much larger. That's not to say that they would have succeeded if they'd gone after that though; instead we…

I firmly believe that RethinkDB could have been a huge player along with the likes of MongoDB and Elasticsearch if they could have gotten additional funding or focused more on business development. Note: both MongoDB and Elasticsearch are now hugely successful public companies. - Changefeeds were so useful and still to this day not really matched in quality. - Official client libraries were very high quality. I mainl…

I liked the RethinkDB API better too. Seemed more intuitive and you could do something like joins in it too.
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