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How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

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Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#181

Post by stevegalla »

lhorie wrote: post #105
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what you call a "globalist punching bag" is also affectionately called a melting pot. Toronto is explicitly not a melting pot. Trudeau and others have been explicit in describing Canada (and Toronto) as being a mosaic of cultures, or a patchwork, or quilt, and not the melting pot that America touts itself to be. Canada's migration policies are one facet of my labelling it a globalist punching bag, among many, but ce…

If I'm coming across as accusing you specifically of racism, I apologize, I did not construe your comment as such. FWIW, many "little X" towns in toronto are in fact caucasian... You are entitled to your opinion and Trudeau to his, all I'm saying is that it's a bit callous to characterize a large number of people as "shallow" or buying into a meme (the thing about loving americanisms) on the same breath as claiming i…

> You are entitled to your opinion and Trudeau to his

If you’re referring to the point about Canada being a cultural mosaic, I don’t think this a Trudeauism. I recall learning that in high school 15 years ago. A quick google search leads to [1], which points to the term originating in the 1920’s.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_mosaic

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#182

Post by lhorie »

stevegalla wrote: post #181
lhorie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm coming across as accusing you specifically of racism, I apologize, I did not construe your comment as such. FWIW, many "little X" towns in toronto are in fact caucasian... You are entitled to your opinion and Trudeau to his, all I'm saying is that it's a bit callous to characterize a large number of people as "shallow" or buying into a meme (the thing about loving americanisms) on the same breath as claiming i…

> You are entitled to your opinion and Trudeau to his If you’re referring to the point about Canada being a cultural mosaic, I don’t think this a Trudeauism. I recall learning that in high school 15 years ago. A quick google search leads to [1], which points to the term originating in the 1920’s. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_mosaic

I didn't mean it was a trudeauism, I literally meant he's entitled to subscribe to whatever idea he wants, just like anyone else. I was mostly speaking to the distinction (or lack thereof) between "melting pot" and "cultural mosaic". The bottom of your link summarizes this more explicitly:

> The "cultural mosaic" theory is not without critics. Some pundits, such as The Globe and Mail's Jeffrey Simpson and Carleton University journalism professor Andrew Cohen, have argued that the entire melting pot/mosaic dynamic is largely an imagined concept and that there remains little measurable evidence that American or Canadian immigrants as collective groups can be proven to be more or less "assimilated" or "multicultural" than each other.

My personal stance on this is that I do think there are some differences between american and canadian multiculturalism, but not enough to warrant making a pejorative distinction, and certainly not for the purpose of driving exclusionary us-vs-them narratives.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#183

Post by dang »

doggodaddo78 wrote: post #19
holistio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I noticed some commenters make harsh and hateful generalisations about people they do not actually know. Sigh. This comment above made me a bit sad.

Harsh? Hateful? Where? Why are you shouting "racist! racist!" so frivolously? You and your assumptions make you sad. I lived in the Valley for 40 years, consulted in Fortune 500's and startups. YOU are the ignorant and intellectually-bankrupt one.

Your GP comment was already against the site guidelines (note this one: "Please don't fulminate."), but posting like you did here will get you banned on HN, so please don't do that again.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#184

Post by dang »

approxim8ion wrote: post #2

Prepare for serious astroturfing if this post gets any traction.

This comment breaks the site guidelines. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#185

Post by [deleted] »

amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #143
majjgepolja wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of BLM/LGBTQLMONOP hipsters are still racist towards Indians and Asians because that's not even criticized.

Exactly, these comments would result in bans if they were about black people instead of south asians.

[deleted]

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#186

Post by lazyninja987 »

lazyninja987 wrote: post #93
dominotw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still very prevalent. 1. I know people in my friend circle here in USA who refuse to invite people from lower caste into their home. One even had separate set of tea cups for lower caste friends to serve tea in. In india lower caste people are not allowed to enter the homes of higher caste people. 2. indians in usa form their friends group based on their nationality/language/region/caste in that order. While I…

Some counter thoughts. 1. Maintaining separate cups is a social oddity. my mom follows the same principle. House members have their own cups/plates, guests have their own cups/plates. even if my relatives come to my home they will use guest set. My mom protests if i eat in my sister's plate. Nothing related to caste. Lower caste people banned from entering homes is a bit of a stretch. Are you saying upper caste peopl…

@dominotw, interesting that you posted a article which disproves your claim of 99% and immediately deleted it.

way to go.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#187

Post by lazyninja987 »

pradn wrote: post #111
throwaway713 wrote: post #3

I don’t know anything about Indian culture; could someone who is from there shed some light on how prevalent the prejudiced mindset is? E.g., do 80% of people think the caste system is stupid and outdated whereas the other 20% still hold some prejudice toward Dalits? What about Indians that have moved to the U.S.? And is this issue improving quickly or slowly?

A good thing to watch is this episode of the Indian social issues show, Satyameva Jayate. (It's hosted by a major Bollywood actor.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPmAltGay3s The episode shows contemporary discrimination against a woman of a so called "untouchable" caste. She is a PhD-holding lecturer at Delhi University, a major national research university. And even with her accomplishments, she sees discriminatio…

90% of indian marriages are arranged. arranged marriages by definition happen with in the same caste (and rarely among friends families).

I am willing to bet, 100% of non-arranged marriages are outside of caste/religion. The dating scene is still in its infant stages, you can expect more inter-caste marriages when arranged marriages decline.

I want to point out that prevalence of same-caste marriage does not automatically translate to caste based discrimination.

For example, I am open to marrying other caste person, but if other caste persons are not willing to marry me (for whatever reason), and I end marrying in my caste. does it mean I discriminate others based on caste ?

if a white person marries another white person does it mean that white person is racist?

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#188

Post by higerordermap »

DisjointedHunt wrote: post #163
bobosha wrote: post #135

Indian immigrant to US here (non IIT, but Brahmin). Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter. Although there were just a few idiots ... but it could very well have been my brahmin privilege or perhaps my urban upbringing. I did notice a bit of persecution complex within Brahmins about "reservations" (India's affirmative action). But more alar…

>Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter. Have you not seen a single matrimonial advertisement in the US for members of the Indian community or back home in India? I find the statement perplexing having lived in India for a while and having professional relationships with many from the region.

To be fair, arranged marriages depend on even more things. Sub-sub-sub-caste as other poster mentioned, and gotra (which excludes certain members of same caste). That's just too foreign thing for a western mindset.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#189

Post by higerordermap »

notacoward wrote: post #127
throwaway713 wrote: post #3

I don’t know anything about Indian culture; could someone who is from there shed some light on how prevalent the prejudiced mindset is? E.g., do 80% of people think the caste system is stupid and outdated whereas the other 20% still hold some prejudice toward Dalits? What about Indians that have moved to the U.S.? And is this issue improving quickly or slowly?

My experience, as an outsider who used to visit colleagues in India regularly, is that it's quite prevalent but very tricky to talk about. It's an understandably sensitive topic. There's obviously a lot of variation, both according to a person's own position within that structure and (I've heard) different parts of the country. Nonetheless, it's hard to miss the visible differences between the people working in a tec…

> It's also hard to dismiss caste as an ongoing issue when you find out that all but two out of 50+ engineers you worked with is Brahmin.

This is not unbelievable but this large a number is quite surprising. 48/50 from various "upper castes" is quite common though.

Nepotism is rampant though, not unbelievable.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#190

Post by higerordermap »

notacoward wrote: post #130
majjgepolja wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them don't even ask your caste these days. I do not know where you're from. And there's even caste based affirmative action.

My understanding is that many people don't directly ask about caste any more, but they'll actively try to figure it out based on your last name or "innocuous" questions about where you're from, what schools you went to, dietary habits, etc. Is that not so?

Maybe in previous generation. Millennials/Gen Z doesn't care much.
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