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On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

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Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#291

Post by reedjosh »

maxerickson wrote: post #234
reedjosh wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean if you are willing to buy it regularly without sampling. We bought a few brands prior to our current buying pattern. I am not willing to buy milk without sampling. Currently we have two that we like. Basically, one has extra fat added, but the other comes in a reusable (literally return for reuse) glass bottle. If only I could get both.

Yes, I mean willingness to grab a container off the shelf and buy it without sampling, not the process of establishing preferences.

Cool. Then yes, I don't view milk as fitting the definition above though I realize many do.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#292

Post by maxerickson »

reedjosh wrote: post #291
maxerickson wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean willingness to grab a container off the shelf and buy it without sampling, not the process of establishing preferences.

Cool. Then yes, I don't view milk as fitting the definition above though I realize many do.

Do you check which farm it is from and give it a sniff?

Or do you put it in the cart and pay for it?

"Cheap" was an overstatement, but in general, modern industrial methods lead to consistent quality and downward price trajectories.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#293

Post by andrew_ »

jessaustin wrote: post #284
andrew_ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a human who is concerned with the treatment of bull (male) calfs born on dairy farms and their treatment for the production of veal, I have absolutely no clue why being a vegan has any pertinence. Why is it such common practice to insufferably proclaim one's ethos as a vegan? In all seriousness, the conditions under which bull calfs for veal production is abhorrent, and I have great difficulty in balance sympathy…

At least in USA, veal consumption is low enough that most of those surplus bulls are slaughtered as "mature" steers at ~20 months of age, not as calves. (Some people may not consider that much of an improvement!) Also there is sexed semen, which avoids the issue completely.

This is fascinating. I've spent some time looking into the sexed semen, had no knowledge that was a thing prior. Thank you for sharing that.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#294

Post by samatman »

likpok wrote: post #286
samatman wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm opposed to the use of rBGH. Stating falsehoods doesn't help the cause. The absence of evidence that rBGH ends up in milk isn't for lack of trying to find it. I get organic milk because it tastes better. I suspect that means it's more nutritious, and further suspect that's because of the growth hormone, not the absence of some pesticides (but not others!) in the feed. To preemptively correct a misconception which…

I don't think I've seen milk that's not rBST free, even the cheap store brands. Where are you even finding it? Organic milk is often UHT pasteurized which gives it a slightly scalded flavor. That might be what your tasting, rather than any nutritional difference.

Could be placebo, I grant you. 90% of my milk consumption is as yogurt, I get the UHT stuff by preference, so I don't have to scald it in the Instant Pot myself. The comparison is apples-to-apples along that dimension.

Your claim surprised me, so I've done a bit of looking into it, and it seems that milk from cows given rBGH/BST was never particularly prevalent, and has steeply declined over the past ten years! Also, the FDA never required the disclaimer about rBGH milk being found to be identical to non-rBGH, that's tacked on out of fear of lawsuit.

I guess next time I make yogurt I'll try the store-brand UHT and see what I think. Organic certification does have some animal welfare requirements which I support, but I eat almost a quart of yogurt a day and the difference could buy me dinner at a decent restaurant every month.

I will say that the difference between expensive eggs and cheap ones is completely obvious, while that between organic milk and the regular is subtle enough that I might just be fooling myself.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#295

Post by valgor »

andrew_ wrote: post #105
cies wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the conditions under which bull calfs for veal production is abhorrent To you! To me (also vegan) any animal in a cage is abhorrent. I want to be free and wild and I also want all others to be free and wild. Maybe some humans deserve to be caged for their behavior. Animals can never be guilty... > Next time you see that on the menu, take a moment to think about where it's coming from and how it's made. Exactly. Was…

This is yet more the kind of nonsensical, insufferable drivel that turns people away from rationally thinking about their food. Someone's preference for how and what they eat contributes nothing to conversation, and exists only to project a belief of superiority and collect pats on the back from like-minded thinkers.

For every vegan that posts, there is also the insufferable drivel of someone that is above veagns. The person that has to tell the world they will continue exploiting and abusing animals because vegans are annoying. Not sure why you act like you are adding so much rich information to the conversation by complaining about a vegan.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#296

Post by WalterBright »

analog31 wrote: post #177
xipho wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to equate hard work ethic with sustainability, this is false. You obviously have never experienced the joys of winters with nothing todo except read, learn, cook and play, because you worked insanely hard on the farm for 6-8 months of the growing season (being your own boss, but who cares about that).

A friend of mine is a farmer -- typical Wisconsin corn & beans. Those winters are spent finding other income sources. Some of his activities: Driving the big snow plows. Short haul truck driving on country roads in the dark. Repairing his ancient equipment. Being a local dealer for something or other. Same with any time slot that he can fill during the growing season. An issue he faces is that he pays more for seeds…

> he looks about 20 years older

On the other hand, he might live longer as a result of the hard work.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#297

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

darkarmani wrote: post #240
AshleighBasil wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>reported farms using illegal labor. I'm from Mexico, but I've always suspected the reason the US Democratic Party supports immigration is precisely because a lot of big corporations want to drive down the price of labor. They piggyback on antiracist and antinationalist activism to advance the interests of big agriculture. If I was a big agro, I'd invest in both parties. The Republicans to remove regulation that help…

> is precisely because a lot of big corporations want to drive down the price of labor Doesn't immigration also create industry which then creates jobs?

Yes.

But, lowering tariffs also lets cheap chinese assembly line shoes be shipped to the US for 80 cents less than what it costs to manufacture on shore.

The 80 cents saved does not matter to the shoemaker who lived to sell shoes all his life, has 2 kids and a mortgage, and suffers early retirement due to unfetted globalization.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#298

Post by lioeters »

blowski wrote: post #5

One of the main characters in Serotonin (Michel Houellbecq, 2019) is a French dairy farmer watching his family's business slowly go bankrupt. It's a ficitonal version of a simlar set of events, causes and consequences.

Thanks for mentioning the book, on my reading list now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_(novel)

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#299

Post by WalterBright »

lettergram wrote: post #79
gruez wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another important factor for me, was the protection from inflation. Food prices go up during inflation, so my farm is worth more. this is a moot point because literally any other thing you invest it (short of maybe government bonds) protect you from inflation.

Not quite. Stocks, gold, Bitcoin, a house you live in (not rent) don’t produce anything (unless your stock has a dividend). You want something that produces. Say I buy $300k worth of gold, 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand and its now worth $330k. Say I buy a $300k farm. 10% inflation hits and there’s no change in demand. It’s now worth $330k... but the value of production of said farm is also up 10%…

Even if the stock doesn't have a dividend, the stock rises to reflect when the company produces value.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#300

Post by devoutsalsa »

analog31 wrote: post #177
xipho wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to equate hard work ethic with sustainability, this is false. You obviously have never experienced the joys of winters with nothing todo except read, learn, cook and play, because you worked insanely hard on the farm for 6-8 months of the growing season (being your own boss, but who cares about that).

A friend of mine is a farmer -- typical Wisconsin corn & beans. Those winters are spent finding other income sources. Some of his activities: Driving the big snow plows. Short haul truck driving on country roads in the dark. Repairing his ancient equipment. Being a local dealer for something or other. Same with any time slot that he can fill during the growing season. An issue he faces is that he pays more for seeds…

Does he look older just because he’s spent so much time in the sun? The sun will make you look like a raisin with excessive exposure.
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