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On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

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Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#251

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

anonAndOn wrote: post #217
BitwiseFool wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall hearing that there is a glut of milk in the US because there are just too many dairy cows. Is this still true?

Don't forget rBGH.[0] Canada and the EU banned it, but thanks to big Pharma, you can get still get hormone adulterated milk in the US of A. [0] https://www.organicvalley.coop/blog/rBGH-decoded-what-is-bov...

Is there good scientific evidence that rBGH is bad for you? I don't know a lot about this, but my first guess is that "naturalness" / "organicness" partisans are opposed to it for reasons related to the non-scientifically-supported ideas they have that are rooted in purity instincts.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#252

Post by Tossrock »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #239
jbroson wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. And hard back-breaking work is not unique to farming. Plenty of restaurants or other small businesses basically run off owners and family giving dozens of hours of labor every week "for free"

> I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. Why exactly is that important? I could not turn a profit running a family plastic casting business in the U.S. either. It's just not something that can be done competitively on a small scale. Seems like milk production isn't either. That's sad for people…

Because large agribusiness conglomerates extract their profits largely by creating negative externalities through pollution and underpriced illegal labor? That was kinda the whole point of the article. Government exists to create policy regulating externalities, and they're failing to do their job here.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#253

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

jeromenerf wrote: post #12

Is it even worth it to make cheese anywhere else than France, Switzerland and Italy mountains?

Portugal, Spain, Greece and the rest of the Balkans, Romania, UK, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands also make, eat and export plenty of cheese.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#254

Post by milesvp »

eej71 wrote: post #109
smeyer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing isn't specific to farms. If you take out a fixed-rate loan, you'll benefit from increases to inflation (since it makes the inflation-adjusted interest rate lower). This is true whether you use that loan to buy a farm, a house, gold, et cetera. Other than the loan, it makes sense to work in real dollars (inflation adjusted) not nominal dollars (non-inflation adjusted). In real dollars, you $300k…

Perhaps I'm deeply misinformed, but as a hedge against a modest amount of regular inflation, stocks generally perform quite well over the long term - especially when compared against other asset categories.

You’re not misinformed. This is kind of a weird thread.

Generally, if you want to hedge against inflation, you buy anything but dollars. If you want a very safe hedge against inflation you buy US government bonds. They are considered the lowest default bond, and as such will generally be priced at expected inflation. Next up, if you want about 1% above inflation (and the associated risk) you go with corporate bonds. And if you want about 3%, and more risk, you go with stocks.

Generally you should know the higher the interest the greater the risk. Some of the risk is short term risk, like not being able to liquidate. Some of the risk is longer term, like a company becoming insolvent.

To get good returns from the stock market, you need diversity, and long time lines, and growing companies. Else luck.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#255

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

jansan wrote: post #55
arethuza wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were on holiday in France skiing for a week once and the hotel dinner included 4 different local cheeses each night - none were repeated of the course of a week. It wasn't exactly a smart hotel (2* I think) but the food was sublime.

Some of the cheese they sell in France would be classified as a biological weapon in Germany. They are awesome.

Equally, Limburger would be classed as a biological weapon in France, and I dare say, the world. Brevibacterium Linens for the ... eeeugh.

(but, good cheese)

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#256

Post by Spooky23 »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #235
Spooky23 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agriculture was the first victim of the red/blue phenomenon. Agricultural and trade policy is all about government supported grain industry. For the dairy farmer, they are stuck between regulatory reform that dramatically increases the supply of milk by creating a national market, while their downstream supply chain partners are allowed to consolidate and form monopolies, because American legal theory is insane. I li…

There is another danger that is not being touched upon. Once things consolidate, the overall system becomes massively more fragile. Think 2008 with a few very big multinational banks. A crisis basically brought the market to its knees. Contrast this to restaurants. We have had covid restrictions for months, but yet, 2/3rd of the independently owned are finding ways to operate. They are the epitome of resilience. Imag…

It already happened. We couldn’t get flour at retail, because of the supply chain breakdown of paper bags.

Consolidated industry + strategic sourcing = low resilience.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#257

Post by jamesgreenleaf »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #251
anonAndOn wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget rBGH.[0] Canada and the EU banned it, but thanks to big Pharma, you can get still get hormone adulterated milk in the US of A. [0] https://www.organicvalley.coop/blog/rBGH-decoded-what-is-bov...

Is there good scientific evidence that rBGH is bad for you? I don't know a lot about this, but my first guess is that "naturalness" / "organicness" partisans are opposed to it for reasons related to the non-scientifically-supported ideas they have that are rooted in purity instincts.

In the US, on every carton of milk that advertises itself as being rBGH-free, there's a statement mandated by the FDA, who was apparently lobbied by the industrialized farms who thought such advertising unfair:

"The FDA has determined that no significant difference has been shown between milk derived from rBGH-supplemented and non-rBGH-supplemented cows"

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#258

Post by AtlasBarfed »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #219
BitwiseFool wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall hearing that there is a glut of milk in the US because there are just too many dairy cows. Is this still true?

Yes, but I think it depends on the location. At my local grocery store in Chicago, milk has been $2 per gallon ($0.53 per liter) for years, as long as you buy 2 gallons or more. When I was in Florida for a few months, I couldn't find it for less than $3.79 per gallon ($1 per liter) anywhere. The cheaper milk in the upper midwest tastes better too, as it all comes from Wisconsin and Indiana where the cows can feed on…

Is there still that weird law that fixes the price of milk based on how far from Wisconsin it is?

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#259

Post by Turing_Machine »

rootusrootus wrote: post #179
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the meantime, the well-watered, prime farm I worked on as a teen had most of the topsoil stripped and sold, and there is a subdivision with 40-50 houses on it. Americans are addicted to (boring) houses in the suburbs and cars, it's such a shame.

One man's boring is another man's idyllic.

Yes. A lot of people enjoy having a safe yard for their kids to play in and where they can have friends and family over for a cookout. They also enjoy not sharing walls with noisy neighbors who fight and/or play loud music at all hours, not having heavy traffic in the area, and so on.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#260

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

Tossrock wrote: post #252
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. Why exactly is that important? I could not turn a profit running a family plastic casting business in the U.S. either. It's just not something that can be done competitively on a small scale. Seems like milk production isn't either. That's sad for people…

Because large agribusiness conglomerates extract their profits largely by creating negative externalities through pollution and underpriced illegal labor? That was kinda the whole point of the article. Government exists to create policy regulating externalities, and they're failing to do their job here.

Pollution is a negative externality, I agree. Paying illegal immigrants to work in the U.S. is illegal, but it is not a negative externality. I'm also not convinced that small farms are better about either of these things than big ones are.
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