On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#221

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #213

nineplay wrote: post #95

I think he's glossing over the obvious. A friend of mine was just reminiscing about growing up in her family's dairy farm. Every Saturday morning, every Sunday morning, every Christmas you get up to take care of the cows. Feel sick? You've got to get up and take care of the cows. Want to go on vacation? Can't, there's no one you can leave the cows with. It's a hard life - maybe a satisfying life in some ways but ther…

I always joke with people that farming is a great half time job, just pick which 12 hours you want to work. I also think the only people that want to start farming are those that have never done it.

Haha, right. I run into people on reddit all the time who idealize life on a farm. Right up until I remind them that even if it's -20F and blowing snow horizontally and you're sick with the flu, you still have to go out and take care of the animals.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#222

Post by jbroson » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #95

I think he's glossing over the obvious. A friend of mine was just reminiscing about growing up in her family's dairy farm. Every Saturday morning, every Sunday morning, every Christmas you get up to take care of the cows. Feel sick? You've got to get up and take care of the cows. Want to go on vacation? Can't, there's no one you can leave the cows with. It's a hard life - maybe a satisfying life in some ways but ther…

I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is.

And hard back-breaking work is not unique to farming. Plenty of restaurants or other small businesses basically run off owners and family giving dozens of hours of labor every week "for free"

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#223

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #124

Spooky23 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agriculture was the first victim of the red/blue phenomenon. Agricultural and trade policy is all about government supported grain industry. For the dairy farmer, they are stuck between regulatory reform that dramatically increases the supply of milk by creating a national market, while their downstream supply chain partners are allowed to consolidate and form monopolies, because American legal theory is insane. I li…

> The aquifers that support Midwest grain are being depleted An overwhelming majority of farm land in the Midwest is not irrigated, with Nebraska being the only significant outlier.

McGuire answered this concern.

The other one I forgot to mention is the topsoil erosion from brain dead farming practices, which is now in or on its way to the Gulf of Mexico.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#224

Post by dang » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

qxfys wrote: post #2

previous discussion about this : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19368542

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19320335 with 1 comment from the author, pointing to this thread which started the article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18942467

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#225

Post by speeder » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

wtmt wrote: post #138

speeder wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind you, activist veganism is one of the biggest reasons family farms are being destroyed all over the world. Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget. Meanwhile people that CAN afford to buy high quality food from family farms, don't, because o…

> Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget. This has everything to do with capitalism and large corporations selling 99c (meat) burgers with fries and cola with hardly anything healthy in them at the cost of the environment, workers, and other as…

Yes.

Then better quality farmers have two choices: becomea competitor for mass-quantity farmers and rely on practices like feeding animals with soybeans, or focus on the high end market...

But vegans convinced people on the high end market, to not buy those products.

The article we are commenting on, already explained all the other reasons for death of the small dairies, I just added one more, it felt to me the article done enough to talk about government regulation and whatnot, and I didn't need to repeat it.

Considering the replies I had here, maybe I was wrong on that.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#226

Post by subungual » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

buildbot wrote: post #158

slfnflctd wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a sentient AI with superhuman intelligence were observing us, they would be utterly puzzled at the amount of waste and destruction we perpetuate through the meat & dairy industries for no reason other than ephemeral perceived pleasure through our taste buds. If "someone's preference" - a completely subjective thing - is objectively less efficient and more harmful than doing something else, we can and do intervene…

Or it would be wondering why we don’t eat any piece of meat we possibly can in order to maximally extract nutrients from our surrounding environment.

Maximal extraction of resources would involve focusing on eating plants. Feeding the plants to animals and then eating them is tremendously inefficient in terms of both calories and nutrients.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#227

Post by reedjosh » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #212

katbyte wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Milk should not be a commodity neither should food, water, or shelter but here we are

Commodity literally means cheap and of consistent quality. All of those things should be commodities, even if we choose to pay for them as a society rather than organizing the flow of goods using markets. Put simply, if you are willing to buy it without sampling it, you think it's a commodity.

I think you mean if you are willing to buy it regularly without sampling. We bought a few brands prior to our current buying pattern.

I am not willing to buy milk without sampling. Currently we have two that we like. Basically, one has extra fat added, but the other comes in a reusable (literally return for reuse) glass bottle. If only I could get both.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#228

Post by jeromenerf » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #19

jeromenerf wrote: post #12

Is it even worth it to make cheese anywhere else than France, Switzerland and Italy mountains?

For years, we had a few goats, and made our own dairy and cheese. It worked fine, at the price of having to do some extra chores each day. So I'm not sure what you are measuring to define if it is "worth it".

I was just being sarcastic I guess.

Anyway, I don’t believe in high volume, low value dairy products as sustainable. They aren’t even good products.

I am perfectly fine with homemade cheese from the backyard goats.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#229

Post by mcguire » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #223

tengbretson wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The aquifers that support Midwest grain are being depleted An overwhelming majority of farm land in the Midwest is not irrigated, with Nebraska being the only significant outlier.

McGuire answered this concern. The other one I forgot to mention is the topsoil erosion from brain dead farming practices, which is now in or on its way to the Gulf of Mexico.

Yeah, be careful with that.

You also need to worry about soil salinization, where irrigated land becomes less productive.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#230

Post by nineplay » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

jbroson wrote: post #222

nineplay wrote: post #95

I think he's glossing over the obvious. A friend of mine was just reminiscing about growing up in her family's dairy farm. Every Saturday morning, every Sunday morning, every Christmas you get up to take care of the cows. Feel sick? You've got to get up and take care of the cows. Want to go on vacation? Can't, there's no one you can leave the cows with. It's a hard life - maybe a satisfying life in some ways but ther…

I'm pretty sure the fact that it's impossible to turn a profit in any of the "family" small scale dairy farms is a little more important than how hard the work is. And hard back-breaking work is not unique to farming. Plenty of restaurants or other small businesses basically run off owners and family giving dozens of hours of labor every week "for free"

The author didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit. 2 out of 3 of his brother didn't want to work on the farm regardless of profit.

My friend would never go back to a farming life, nor would any of her siblings or cousins. It's just too much work in a world where there are a lot of fun things to do with your spare time. My friend mentors 4H students, but she also takes off on scuba-diving trips several times a year.