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You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

freddiedeboer.substack.com

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Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#671

Post by morelisp »

DC1350 wrote: post #616
morelisp wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds more like being an asshole in a forum that's not yours is enough to get you banned from reddit.

I’m gay so things like this matter to me. A lot of trans rhetoric is deeply homophobic.

I'm gay and you are deeply transphobic.

It has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. It's because you went onto a message board for trans people to complain about trans people to other trans people.

Then when they refused to put up with your bullshit you tried to spin it into a grand censorship narrative, rather than bog-standard asshole behavior.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#672

Post by wnoise »

fhood wrote: post #664
wnoise wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Research has found that the probability of conspiratorial thinking is quadratic with respect to political extremism in either direction. Extremism has no natural quantification. This statement is nonsense.

I don't what the research is in question, but I absolutely think that political extremism, particularly in the context of two party systems, can quantified in at least a semi-meaningful way. Create a list of policies. Poll a large equally split group of registered voters from either party. Assign each policy an extremism index based on some combination of the amount of cross party support, and the percentage of total…

You might be able to order it, sure. Translating that into magnitudes is entirely subjective.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#673

Post by Viliam1234 »

hef19898 wrote: post #170
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of the two sides, only one is actively trying to restrict the freedom of people based on skin, religion and sex. Only one side is arguing for violence against weaker people, like fugitives and migrants. I sincerely don't think either of the two sides is advocating for those things (ignoring a very few extremists - on both sides - with malicious intent, who don't represent the majority). I do see those issues me…

The AfD called to shoot migrants at the EU border. They retreated to the "only one person's personal opinion" after a harsh backlash. QAnon representatives are calling for the murder of Democrats. The same group advocates for brutal treatment of migrants, restrictions of freedom of choice for women, direct violence against muslims. I don't see any of this on the left side of the political spectrum. Also, when someone…

> I don't see any of this on the left side of the political spectrum.

So, like, when someone tweets "kill all men", no one on the left says: relax, it was obviously just a joke!

Also, Valerie Solanas and Donna Hylton never existed, or at least were never considered heroes by the left.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#674

Post by sabarn01 »

morelisp wrote: post #670
sabarn01 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Megan Phelps-Roper Derek Black George Wallce Via Shirley Chisholm https://www.persuasion.community/p/lessons-of-a-black-pionee... You are basically saying there is no power in integration and that the only effort for reform here should be negative consequences which generally isn't viewed as a liberal perspective on how to reintegrate people into society.

> You are basically saying there is no power in integration and that the only effort for reform here should be negative consequences This an extremely uncharitable reading of my comments. I said a structural problem needs a structural solution, not a personal one. To invoke Chisholm as a counter-argument is offensive.

Then you are easily offended.

I think that what Chisholm did and what Davis did are in the same category. Personal outreach. You said Davis was the only example so I gave you others.

I don't think racism is structural problem Its a personal problem solved by individuals. The legacy of racism and its former codification may be structural and addressed in a structural way but they are fundamental different.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#675

Post by pmichaud »

rodone wrote: post #639
T-hawk wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a major and serious point. A large part of the discourse has become slapping the "extremist" label on every dissenting argument from the other side, regardless of where the position actually is. If you ban extremist speech, then what you've done is create incentive to label everything as extremist.

That's just not true.

Which part is not true in what way?

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#676

Post by DC1350 »

morelisp wrote: post #671
DC1350 wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m gay so things like this matter to me. A lot of trans rhetoric is deeply homophobic.

I'm gay and you are deeply transphobic. It has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. It's because you went onto a message board for trans people to complain about trans people to other trans people. Then when they refused to put up with your bullshit you tried to spin it into a grand censorship narrative, rather than bog-standard asshole behavior.

ok

btw the term “sexual preference” is cause for cancellation now (see ACB incident) so you’re still not woke enough to please the mob. Do better.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#677

Post by morelisp »

sabarn01 wrote: post #674
morelisp wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are basically saying there is no power in integration and that the only effort for reform here should be negative consequences This an extremely uncharitable reading of my comments. I said a structural problem needs a structural solution, not a personal one. To invoke Chisholm as a counter-argument is offensive.

Then you are easily offended. I think that what Chisholm did and what Davis did are in the same category. Personal outreach. You said Davis was the only example so I gave you others. I don't think racism is structural problem Its a personal problem solved by individuals. The legacy of racism and its former codification may be structural and addressed in a structural way but they are fundamental different.

> I don't think racism is structural problem... The legacy of racism and its former codification may be structural and addressed in a structural way but they are fundamental different.

E2 80 8A

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#678

Post by tablespoon »

lliamander wrote: post #658
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some slightly bad opinion suddenly finds themselves shut out of the main platforms because of hate speech rules A "slightly bad opinion" has to be more than "slightly bad" to break hate speech rules. If you feel a platform is overzealous in enforcing hate speech rules, don't use it. Or maybe ask yourself some questions before moving out. EDIT: the rain of downvotes is telling as usual.

> EDIT: the rain of downvotes is telling as usual. You suggest that people subject to social stigma and censure should "maybe ask [themselves] some questions". Do you think the reaction you are receiving should cause you to question your own position?

>> If you feel a platform is overzealous in enforcing hate speech rules, don't use it. Or maybe ask yourself some questions before moving out.

>> EDIT: the rain of downvotes is telling as usual.

> You suggest that people subject to social stigma and censure should "maybe ask [themselves] some questions". Do you think the reaction you are receiving should cause you to question your own position?

That's twisting what he said. What he actually said is that people who are bothered by "hate speech rules" should "maybe ask [themselves] some questions." He didn't say anything about downvotes should lead to similar self-questioning.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#680

Post by wnoise »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #647

I keep coming back to whether people in general still think open mindedness is a virtue. By open mindedness, I mean open to new experience, open to new ideas, open to new people. Practicing openness means observing and hearing and then evaluating for yourself whether you want to assimilate the experience or idea into your life. Open mindedness also means being open to new information, even if it contradicts a basis f…

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
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