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How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

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Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#161

>This is something torontonians have gotten over ages ago. Bad example. Canada is a globalist punching bag and their behaviour isn't indicative of a country that has grown but one that has merely submitted. I lived in Toronto for a couple of years and even at that point most of the people I met who were born and bred there were hauling ass out of the city to places like Barrie, Burlington or other provinces entirely.…

I'm an American in Western Canada and I'd agree with this. Absolutely nothing I couldn't get in the US, save for Nanaimo Bars and Letterkenny, and you can get both if you're in a border state like WA or ND. There are Tim Horton's in the US (and they suck these days anyway). The culture is basically the generic pseudo-leftist stuff you get via pop culture. They love their virtue signaling here, but most of the talking…

> nothing I couldn't get in the US, save for Nanaimo Bars and Letterkenny

And kinder eggs :)

As someone who spent several years in Toronto, several in San Francisco and grew up in Sao Paulo, Brazil, I agree that there's a lot of similarities between US and Canada. The "uncomfortable truths" you listed sound accurate to me.

But aside from the 10,000 mile view, there's also a certain je-ne-sais-quoi that is hard to put into words, which is what I was referring to when I mentioned torontonians. Let me preface that it's not my intention to criticize anyone, but merely to try to explain a feeling. When we got to the US, we got a distinct impression that my wife described as americans being generally more "nosy" where a canadian might be more "laissez-faire".

To use the GP comment as an example, they seemed to be characterizing international families at costco as "insular and unwilling to mingle with locals". But for me as a torontonian, I'm well aware that, e.g. it's common for indians to have large tight-knit families. I don't feel the need to "judge" that grandparents living with you for extended periods of time does not conform to some predetermined idea of how one ought to "melt into the north american pot". Surely many americans also feel the way I do, but there are enough of those that are vocal enough about their distastes that it becomes a noticeable pattern even if it's a very subtle thing. (On a side note, I dislike the distinction between the "melting pot" term and the "quilt" term, despite "quilt" being a more accurate description of the canadian flavor of globalization, because "quilt" adds a pejorative connotation to the american flavor that I don't feel is necessarily warranted)

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m neither Brahmin nor IITian but am in the immediately adjacent category of Indians. Are many of these IIT alumni (and others as well) from India basically rednecks with engineering degrees? Probably yes. Does it mean your “learn the language” attitude is actually relevant to this discussion? Probably not. Guess who else tells me, a Tamil guy, to learn the language? The same IITians (Hindi is the most popular langu…

"Absolute belief" is something you inferred that wasn't there. Human nature is what it is. Bring enough of any group of people to another place, there will be cultural replacement. What about the self reflection of those who let themselves be underpaid and displace the local culture for a quick buck? It seems like you're being sanctimonious. The Bay Area can keep Man Jose, Sunnyvale, and the East bay. I avoid America…

> What about the self reflection of those who let themselves be underpaid

If this phrase isn't an example of white privilege so despised here, I don't know what is.

But sure. Let's blame the workers who aren't in charge of policy or decision-making.

To complete that bingo, the only thing missing is an "I don't vote because the system is rigged" statement.

>The Bay Area can keep Man Jose, Sunnyvale, and the East bay. I avoid American yuppies without life experience and the precariat too, so don't feel too special.

"I avoid people based on their life experiences, but also you specifically because of where you are from, so don't feel too special"

To anyone wondering how casual racism looks like, you're welcome.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#163

Indian immigrant to US here (non IIT, but Brahmin). Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter. Although there were just a few idiots ... but it could very well have been my brahmin privilege or perhaps my urban upbringing. I did notice a bit of persecution complex within Brahmins about "reservations" (India's affirmative action). But more alar…

>Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter.

Have you not seen a single matrimonial advertisement in the US for members of the Indian community or back home in India?

I find the statement perplexing having lived in India for a while and having professional relationships with many from the region.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#164
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, while there are some unsavory comments, this thread is allowing sunlight into some bad aspects of the Indian-American subculture. We - I am Indian-American myself - need to be serious about such allegations and not get defensive.

I’m not at all being defensive, merely pointing to the double standards.

Again respectfully disagree. "double standards" is in the eye of the beholder. Barring some incendiary comments, this dialogue has been healthy & necessary.

My 2c.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#165

Indian immigrant to US here (non IIT, but Brahmin). Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter. Although there were just a few idiots ... but it could very well have been my brahmin privilege or perhaps my urban upbringing. I did notice a bit of persecution complex within Brahmins about "reservations" (India's affirmative action). But more alar…

>Although I personally haven't seen or noticed casteism in the Indian community here or back in India for that matter. Have you not seen a single matrimonial advertisement in the US for members of the Indian community or back home in India? I find the statement perplexing having lived in India for a while and having professional relationships with many from the region.

Matrimonials is a curious thing in India, it's not just caste, but it's the sub-sub-sub-caste that's often used as a filter. Most Indian marriages are arranged as you know...

However, I didn't see any overt casteism, I would play and be best buds with people of other castes. With caste being somewhat akin to how Americans think of ancestry. AFAIK my parents and their colleagues never once brought caste into any of our interactions. But it could very well be my upper middle-class and urban upbringing and not representative.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#166
post #88

> "To fill those slots, universities sometimes offer seats to students with test scores below the cutoff point—though not as far below as is commonly assumed". General cutoff in 2015 ( my batch ) = 105 marks out of 360 Sc/st/marginalised group cutoff marks = 52.5 marks out of 360. Its literally cut to half and the author says its NOT as far below as is commonly assumed. There is still more to it. You would think that…

So you are unhappy because you couldn't get admission to a college. Now think about the unspeakable things millions of people from these backward classes had to endure for thousands of years. How much anger they must have felt. How much helplessness and self loathing they must have felt for not being able to do anything about it? Because they were told the God intended this life for them! It's not about the income le…

Losing a better chance at education and possibly a better life and potentially making less money because companies values IIT/IIM/NIT tags as a minor apology to people who were already at the same economic playing field as me ?

Naah, absolutely never.

As I said I have absolutely NO objection/problem with SC/ST/OBC/single girl students getting a better shot at education through quota if they had an underpreviliged childhood because of financial difficulties and caste based discrimination. But guys from big cities going to the same coaching institutes coming from same economic background, having a privileged life playing the SC/ST/OBC card is just plain pathetic.

This is not just "A MINOR APOLOGY" its something that can literally change the course of your life.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#167

I once was volunteering at an event. I was having a causal conversation with another guy and after a while he asked me my last name and decided to not indulge in any further conversation anymore. This is one of many instances I experienced. There is a paper about caste oppression. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3725938

I remember an Indian work friend of mine angrily telling me about another employee who wouldn't stop harassing him on account of his last name and the caste it placed him in. This was at a Fortune 10 company and nothing was done about it.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#168
I've heard the opinion that India is the longest-running example of functioning multiculturalism in the world. Parts of the Indian system are no doubt simple remnants of earlier times that serve no purpose, but others are probably very necessary for the system's functioning, and I wonder whether caste might be one of those.

At a glance, caste discrimination seems like it would in fact make it harder for the upper classes to exploit the lower past a certain point, as it makes people very aware of their own interests. Social mobility is a wonderful thing, but it can help arguments for policy that benefit the rich at the expense of the poor fly under the radar.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

There are swathes of Indians who consider it their responsibility to push back against any content that is critical of certain topics. Caste being one of them. Have a look at any of the past threads [1] [1]: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

I figured that's what you meant, but I'd rather it just be said. It wasn't clear what you were trying to say.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#170
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US that is illegal, your friend should have immediately reported it to HR.

Not totally sure that "Caste" is a protected thing.

Several of the laws are broad enough to apply.
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