You can't censor away extremism or any other problem • Hacker News Board

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#431

Post by slibhb » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

AshWolfy wrote: post #419

slibhb wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "paradox of tolerance" states that a tolerant society must be intolerant of intolerance or else it will become an intolerant society. That idea is frequently abused by people who don't know what tolerance is. These people conflate "tolerance" and "approval". What they actually oppose is disapproval (they only disapprove of people who disaprove). For them, being "against homosexuality" is intolerant. "Preferring C…

So hatred is only hatred if you act on it?

There's a distinction to be made between disapproval and hatred. But there's plenty of both to go around.

Neither of them are synonymous with intolerance.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#432

Post by twirlock » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

ralmidani wrote: post #408

Lammy wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still using subjective terms like "extremism" in an objective way that the people on the receiving end of that label may not agree with or appreciate.

They might not agree with it at first, but eventually, large numbers will realize how non-sensical their movement's ideas are. CNN has profiled former QAnon true believers who are recovering.

CNN is just Fox News for extremists like you though.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#433

Post by ralmidani » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

vlanders10 wrote: post #405

buescher wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only subjective terms like "extremism", but religious terms like "redeemable".

Also "remorse", which is quite popular among SJW tribunals when they silence someone on unverified testimony of the popular clique members while refusing to hear the "accused" even once.

I'm not even close to being a leftist (but sign me up for Social Justice without the tribunals).

Regarding your parent post's objection to "redeemable", it's not used in religious contexts exclusively.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#434

Post by splistud » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

ralmidani wrote: post #400

Aunche wrote: post #382

You can censor obvious examples of extremism. I don't think anyone disagreed that Youtube was correct in censoring Isis recruitment videos, for instance. The problem is that people are trying to censor "dog-whistling" extremism. By its very nature, it's a losing battle. Only dogs can hear dog whistles, so there's a high likelihood that you're censoring someone innocent. Also, even if you do censor a dog whistle, they…

You can hear a dog whistle even if you're not a dog. For years, Trump's bigotry was designed to be just subtle enough to get past the media censors, but a lot of people aside from his followers knew exactly what he was doing. The media and big tech only started censoring Trump when he became a danger to American institutions and political figures; endangering the lives of Mexicans, Muslims, and Black people was not d…

That is a breathtaking amount of assumptions to make in 3 lines of text

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#435

Post by caslon » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #378

caslon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The winning approach is obviously in waiting for the other side to die off; the left is currently the majority, and the right is, on average, old. In this regard, it's absolutely a "viable approach": By making it low-status to be right-wing, or even by not carrying right-wing views on popular private platforms, it makes the right-wing destined to lose out somewhere along the line simply due to the youth not wanting t…

The weird problem with this strategy is that there's a number of people who become more conservative, for whatever reason, as they get older. The generation that comprised the hippies are now in their 80s. Mitch McConnell would have been in that generation. So while the current crop of conservatives are dying off, they are being replaced by new members.

It's not enough to make up the gap, though. Further, hippies rarely voted, and weren't the majority or even close to the majority of their generation.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#436

Post by caslon » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #262

caslon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The winning approach is obviously in waiting for the other side to die off; the left is currently the majority, and the right is, on average, old. In this regard, it's absolutely a "viable approach": By making it low-status to be right-wing, or even by not carrying right-wing views on popular private platforms, it makes the right-wing destined to lose out somewhere along the line simply due to the youth not wanting t…

What does "winning" even mean for the left? The people who choose leftism will win against everyone else for the reasons you say, but like all political victories, winning is (comparatively) the easy part. Keeping your values intact and governing a successful society is the hard part. The Left seems to have given up on liberalism in persuit of victory. They are in the process of giving up on progressivism. What remai…

What's good about liberalism?

They seem more progressive than ever; an open socialist nearly won their primary last year.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#437

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

jstrong wrote: post #354

watwut wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no "all lives matter" until there was "black lives matter" and people wanted to say they don't like the message. It is quite dishonest to claim that this phrase is neutral and not a political slogan.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Textually, that can be read as a fancied-up version of "all lives matter". Semantically at the time, it most certainly did not have an everyday lived reality that all people were equal.

At the time, women couldn't vote, Black people could be owned, and all people could be indentured servants, which significantly undermines the "Thomas Jefferson said 'All Lives Matter' almost 250 years ago" argument.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#438

Post by Hitton » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #197

arthurcolle wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is literally defined as discrimination against any singular group based on race or ethnic group. Discrimination, irrespective of its origin on the left or right wing of the spectrum, should be treated identically. Implicit and explicit racial discrimination is omnipresent on both sides of the spectrum. This is evidenced by literally pulling up any of the popular social justice warrior channels on YouTube; you…

[flagged]

Do you realize that whole Asia and majority of Africa is in northern hemisphere?

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#439

Post by fatsdomino001 » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

ralmidani wrote: post #351

You can't censor it away completely, but you can help the redeemable extremists __know__ they're indulging in extremism by forcing them to go to fringe websites rather than allow them to stay on Twitter and Facebook as if nothing is wrong. As for the "deplorables" who know what they're doing and will never question it or feel any remorse, we should not be giving them a megaphone. sources[0]: I was susceptible to extr…

"you can help the redeemable extremists __know__ they're indulging in extremism by forcing them to go to fringe websites rather than allow them to stay on Twitter and Facebook as if nothing is wrong."

This is such a terrible idea. All this accomplishes is causing extremists to find echo chambers where they will never actually know what they're doing is wrong. It's much better to keep extremists in mainstream platforms so they can be called out and atleast informed that they are wrong. Your solution is totally backwards and accomplishes the opposite of what you're hoping for.

Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem

#440

Post by sir_bearington » Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

DanHulton wrote: post #252

ctdonath wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Try saying, with genuine honest neutrality, “all lives matter”, “it’s ok to be white”, or “capitalism doesn’t care about race/gender” and see what happens.

Because there is no "genuine honest neutrality" behind those phrases. They're shibboleths. They're commonly understood slogans, used to indicate what side you're on (or at least what side you're opposed to) while SOUNDING innocent. The people who know, will KNOW what you mean when you say them. (And in the incredibly unlikely situation where you'd somehow been exposed to enough of the discourse to come up with these…

This kind of reaction is what phrases like "it's okay to be white" and "all lives matter" are meant to elicit. It's exactly what trolls want you to do. The other 90% of the population is appalled. Is it not okay to be white? Do some lives not matter?

You're being played.