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How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

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Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#91

Post by gabbo »

gumby wrote: post #55
marcinzm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>failed to make any effort to integrate because they're just visiting to make their coin I mean, have you seen the waiting times for Indian US green cards? You may literally die of old age before getting through the queue right now. The system is structured to make them disposable temporary workers and not future American citizens. So why is it surprising that they act like it?

My cousin reminded me the other day that back in the 80s I was introduced by innumerable mums as “attends MIT and has a green card”. Literally that was my entire “biography”. Edit: seems like thing have diverged since I had to worry about these things: The waiting time for non-Indian green cards is the same btw.

Not sure what you mean by non-Indian green cards exactly, but just to clarify, the waiting time for EB2/EB3 green cards for those in India is really dramatically behind everywhere else (final action dates are a rough proxy for "waiting time" but actually understate the problem): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#92

Post by mc32 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #84
twaybtclong wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They setup an entire heroin network of Domino's like franchises spanning the US. Starting in LA, ultimately spreading all over the country by the early 2000s. The heroin resurgence came on the back of enterprising Mexicans who took advantage of loose sentencing of small amounts and rampant Oxy addicts looking for alternatives. > In two years, from 1995 to 1997, Boise’s minor market had a half-dozen crews selling hero…

> The heroin resurgence came on the back of enterprising Mexicans who took advantage of loose sentencing of small amounts and rampant Oxy addicts looking for alternatives. Did anything bad ever come on the backs of enterprising Americans? Is there any purpose of your comment other than to indict an entire country of people for the actions of a few?

Did Americans ever conduct a gun running operation into Mexico, is that a bad thing?

Yeah it’s bad and we should punish them.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#93

Post by lazyninja987 »

dominotw wrote: post #29
throwaway713 wrote: post #3

I don’t know anything about Indian culture; could someone who is from there shed some light on how prevalent the prejudiced mindset is? E.g., do 80% of people think the caste system is stupid and outdated whereas the other 20% still hold some prejudice toward Dalits? What about Indians that have moved to the U.S.? And is this issue improving quickly or slowly?

It is still very prevalent. 1. I know people in my friend circle here in USA who refuse to invite people from lower caste into their home. One even had separate set of tea cups for lower caste friends to serve tea in. In india lower caste people are not allowed to enter the homes of higher caste people. 2. indians in usa form their friends group based on their nationality/language/region/caste in that order. While I…

Some counter thoughts.

1. Maintaining separate cups is a social oddity. my mom follows the same principle. House members have their own cups/plates, guests have their own cups/plates. even if my relatives come to my home they will use guest set. My mom protests if i eat in my sister's plate. Nothing related to caste.

Lower caste people banned from entering homes is a bit of a stretch. Are you saying upper caste people are getting their water filter serviced with upper caste repairmen? They will allow whoever the water filter company sends them.

I went to homes of all my college classmates and dined in their homes, none of the parents stopped me and asked my caste before entering.

2. this is accurate with some minor changes. i have been in all 4 groups. forming a support circle is easier with something in common.

3. i highly doubt its 99%. you are just pulling these numbers out of thin air. In my small family circle, i can count 1 inter-religion marriage, 5 inter-caste marriage. i am not even in a metro city. i can put the number as 80%-20%

4. i agree with subconcious bias. its hard to measure. it may be there. it may not be there.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#94

Post by ryangittins »

dominotw wrote: post #29
throwaway713 wrote: post #3

I don’t know anything about Indian culture; could someone who is from there shed some light on how prevalent the prejudiced mindset is? E.g., do 80% of people think the caste system is stupid and outdated whereas the other 20% still hold some prejudice toward Dalits? What about Indians that have moved to the U.S.? And is this issue improving quickly or slowly?

It is still very prevalent. 1. I know people in my friend circle here in USA who refuse to invite people from lower caste into their home. One even had separate set of tea cups for lower caste friends to serve tea in. In india lower caste people are not allowed to enter the homes of higher caste people. 2. indians in usa form their friends group based on their nationality/language/region/caste in that order. While I…

> I am skeptical that there is caste baste discrimination in workplaces though. But there might still be subconscious bias.

Planet Money has an excellent episode[1] on caste-based discrimination in the workplace—in Silicon Valley specifically. I'm not very knowledgeable about such things, but it was an interesting (an aggravating) listen as an outsider.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/10/14/923736245/caste-arrives-in-si...

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#95

Post by navait »

doggodaddo78 wrote: post #4

Who's worked with Brahmin IITians, raise a paw? :paw emoji here: I hope the Valley absorbs all of the world's horrible tech sociological antipatterns because I ejected from that heap. Transient gold miners descended on the place where I grew up, treated it disposably, and failed to make any effort to integrate because they're just visiting to make their coin. Sunnyvale Costco is like an airport in Burma (okay, Myanma…

What do you mean by problems at Costco? I've visited a few of them and I can't say people behave at the ones in California any different than the ones in Texas. It's crowded but everyone speaks english and follows the rules.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#96

Post by twaybtclong »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #84
twaybtclong wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They setup an entire heroin network of Domino's like franchises spanning the US. Starting in LA, ultimately spreading all over the country by the early 2000s. The heroin resurgence came on the back of enterprising Mexicans who took advantage of loose sentencing of small amounts and rampant Oxy addicts looking for alternatives. > In two years, from 1995 to 1997, Boise’s minor market had a half-dozen crews selling hero…

> The heroin resurgence came on the back of enterprising Mexicans who took advantage of loose sentencing of small amounts and rampant Oxy addicts looking for alternatives. Did anything bad ever come on the backs of enterprising Americans? Is there any purpose of your comment other than to indict an entire country of people for the actions of a few?

That wasn't the argument. My mom died, I know others that died and I know the history behind it. It used to be truth seeking was important. There is truth to what Trump was saying.

At the time he made that statement the opiate epidemic was still in full swing. You can take the media narrative that it was racism, but 70k dead a year for the last decade requires a more nuanced look.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#97

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

dantillberg wrote: post #45
objclxt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of the predominant "fuck it" attitude: don't learn the customs, don't speak the language, don't put down roots, and don't interact with locals [...] when you bring in a junior software engineer's extended family, you're getting a swath of average people too There isn't a huge amount of difference between what you're saying and what the previous president had to say on immigrants coming to the US - "when Mex…

What do you mean by "problematic" here? Is it like "sin?" Or maybe "shameful?" How should I read that?

The word "problematic" has a history.

The original examples:

1. The "Jewish Question" or "Jewish Problem" -- ideas from the then-intelligencia that led to the "Final Solution" of the Holocaust [1].

2. The "woman problem" (which had no similarly dramatic "solution") [2].

The current usage of "problematic" is an intentional "turning of the tables", an inversion of that previous use of language. The people who began this trend of inversion did so deliberately, knowing that they were playing with fire, since in the past those word-games had led to genocide.

A similar inversion of "ressentiment" [3] also happened. At one time it was used for antisemitic purposes; now you're more likely to see it wielded against Trumpists.

Over time, the weapons of one side can, and will, be appropriated by the other.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Question

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_woman_question

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#98

Post by matthewowen »

dominotw wrote: post #29
throwaway713 wrote: post #3

I don’t know anything about Indian culture; could someone who is from there shed some light on how prevalent the prejudiced mindset is? E.g., do 80% of people think the caste system is stupid and outdated whereas the other 20% still hold some prejudice toward Dalits? What about Indians that have moved to the U.S.? And is this issue improving quickly or slowly?

It is still very prevalent. 1. I know people in my friend circle here in USA who refuse to invite people from lower caste into their home. One even had separate set of tea cups for lower caste friends to serve tea in. In india lower caste people are not allowed to enter the homes of higher caste people. 2. indians in usa form their friends group based on their nationality/language/region/caste in that order. While I…

I find it hard to believe that one can have internalized biases to the point you describe in (1) and yet somehow leave those at the door when going to work.

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#99

Post by sadfev »

If you are an IITian and still casteist then something is wrong with you!

Look IITians are often entitled, opinionated and in rare cases obnoxious.

But never during my 5 years in IIT KGP, I have ever felt casteism among students and even amongst alumni after that.

Initially during freshman year there’s a slight sense of resentment against quota (affirmative action for lower castes) students but all of that evaporates as quota and non-quota students alike progress.

The whole point of getting advanced degrees is to shed the ignorance and discrimination and pursue what’s interesting, work with the brightest and of course make a better life for oneself.

Being casteist and discriminatory doesn’t take anyone far in life.

I really hope reports like these are media exaggerations and entitled casteist are very very few.

I have worked my whole life to ascend over this garbage. I don’t want this stupid discourse to follow me now!

Re: How Big Tech Is Importing India’s Caste Legacy to Silicon Valley

#100

Post by [deleted] »

lazyninja987 wrote: post #93
dominotw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still very prevalent. 1. I know people in my friend circle here in USA who refuse to invite people from lower caste into their home. One even had separate set of tea cups for lower caste friends to serve tea in. In india lower caste people are not allowed to enter the homes of higher caste people. 2. indians in usa form their friends group based on their nationality/language/region/caste in that order. While I…

Some counter thoughts. 1. Maintaining separate cups is a social oddity. my mom follows the same principle. House members have their own cups/plates, guests have their own cups/plates. even if my relatives come to my home they will use guest set. My mom protests if i eat in my sister's plate. Nothing related to caste. Lower caste people banned from entering homes is a bit of a stretch. Are you saying upper caste peopl…

[deleted]
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