With regard to the manure issue there are various ways to handle it. Some modern barns are set up with trenches running along the stalls, the stalls can be periodically washed into the trenches, and the trenches drain into a giant holding tank. Manure can be used as a nitrogen source for fields fertilisation or it can be anaerobically digested for methane which can be used as a source of energy.
On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
11–20 of 341 posts
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#12Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#13While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#14Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#15While I can appreciate the author's nostalgia, I cannot really agree on some of the criticism: The manure problem is a problem at any size of farm, the amount of manure per cow is somewhat constant. So concentrating all the cows in some factory farm doesn't really make anything worse as long as the total number of cows is somewhat constant. The undocumented immigrant labour problem isn't as big a problem as the famil…
> the total number of cows is somewhat constant. But the number of cows isn't constant. The entire premise of the article is a demonstration of how large numbers and power laws work in economics. > To feed a growing population on earth, we do need industrial farming. Do we? That's a massively contested debate. See: (Neo)Malthusianism. > But in general, higher efficiency and more professional operations should be appl…
On the one hand, you dismiss my population growth argument as "Malthusianism" (which I don't consider a counter-argument at all, it is just naming things).
But on the other hand you acknowledge that we cannot just feed ever more people:
> What's the point of being able to feed 8 or 9 billion people on the planet, if quality of life for the majority of those individuals is rather low?
So on one hand you are dismissing my argument as Malthusian, on the other hand you are making a very Malthusian argument yourself.
My argument would be: I agree with you that mankind needs to shrink and right-size so the then-sustainable population can have some level of comfort for everyone.
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#16Is it even worth it to make cheese anywhere else than France, Switzerland and Italy mountains?
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#17While I can appreciate the author's nostalgia, I cannot really agree on some of the criticism: The manure problem is a problem at any size of farm, the amount of manure per cow is somewhat constant. So concentrating all the cows in some factory farm doesn't really make anything worse as long as the total number of cows is somewhat constant. The undocumented immigrant labour problem isn't as big a problem as the famil…
> The manure problem is a problem at any size of farm, the amount of manure per cow is somewhat constant. So concentrating all the cows in some factory farm doesn't really make anything worse as long as the total number of cows is somewhat constant. I wonder if this is true. Perhaps the real problem is the concentration of such a large amount of waste in those manure lakes. I don't have any fixed evidence or numbers,…
This is something the author mentions in passing: Almost everywhere, farms are required by law to have a certain amount of land per piece of cattle to spread the manure on. So as long as that certain amount of land is large enough and the spreading happens sufficiently often, there shouldn't be a problem. If there is a problem, current regulations need to be updated. That land requirement will also naturally limit the total amount of cattle that is being raised.
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#18As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.
Basically, low quality food is flooding the market, and getting purchased by the poorer population, that don't feel they have a choice in what they eat, because they eat whatever is necessary to fit in their budget.
Meanwhile people that CAN afford to buy high quality food from family farms, don't, because of activism convincing them that doing so is evil, specially any farm that has anything to do with animals, this results in things that are actually really bad, like climates where wool is an excellent product have the farmers fail due to lack of demand, and instead people start buying plastic-based clothes, that contribute to plastic pollution.
Or in Brazil: people love to blame the animal industry there for the fires, but it is not so simple, the massive areas being deforested ilegally are often used to produce soybeans, that are on an evergrowing demand due to two sources of demand compounding:
1. As family farms die, cattle instead of eating grass (something that in Brazil and some other countries was important, as some places only grow grass, and not other plants more useful for direct human comsumption), people switch to factory animal farms, that require rations, that are often made of soybeans.
2. Meanwhile the upper strata of society is switching from high quality meat (that would eat grass) to eating soybean-based products (like soybean milk, soybean-based meat, etc...)
I think many activists have their heart in the right place, but they don't understand they are causing more problems than fixing them, the soybean industry is massively destructive, incentivizing it is extremely bad idea.
final note: Remembered other major source of soybean usage... when in the 60s and 70s there was this massive media campaign against usage of animal fats for frying, people switched to soybean oil to fry instead, Brazil also produces massive amounts of that, and I know many people that personally use soybean oil because they honestly believe it is healthier to them and better for the environment than using butter, pork fat, etc...
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#19Is it even worth it to make cheese anywhere else than France, Switzerland and Italy mountains?
Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)
#20While I can appreciate the author's nostalgia, I cannot really agree on some of the criticism: The manure problem is a problem at any size of farm, the amount of manure per cow is somewhat constant. So concentrating all the cows in some factory farm doesn't really make anything worse as long as the total number of cows is somewhat constant. The undocumented immigrant labour problem isn't as big a problem as the famil…
Children of parents on a family farm is hardly exploitation. Paying illegal immigrants sub minimum wage to squeeze additional profit out of the land certainly is a bigger problem.
Do we need industrial farming if it's driven by big capital? If the industry is happy to damage the environment, flout labor laws, harm animal welfare is it worth it? Personally I think the cost is too high and if anything, food is too cheap now.