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Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

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Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#171

Post by bscphil »

francislavoie wrote: post #148
rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

I just solve that terminal issue by using a terminal that has "smart copy". The two I know of that do are pantheon-terminal (from elementaryOS) and kitty. The idea is that Ctrl+C behaves normally (sends SIGINT) unless you have text selected, in which case it will copy the selected text then clear the selection. So if you had something selected, you just hit Ctrl+C twice to send an interrupt if you need to, with the c…

This sounds to me like one of those ideas that's great in theory but real-life situations are too fragile to make it work. Suppose you're trying to copy something out of the window with a long-running process. You select some text and then press Ctrl-c, but whoops your hand jerked and you tapped c twice. Process killed. Or as you moved your hand to hit the shortcut, whoops you bumped the trackpack and clicked, deselecting your text, and Ctrl-c killed your process.

Obviously either of these would rarely happen, but every time I use a terminal in macOS I end up accidentally killing a process because I can't keep the modifier keys straight, so I'm sensitive to introducing the issue on Linux. (On Linux, I have the opposite problem, which is that I try to Ctrl-shift-c in Firefox, which opens the dev tools.)

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#172

Post by matthewmacleod »

chmln wrote: post #57
rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

> One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK in a fucking TERMINAL... Because `ctrl-c` sends an interrupt Most terminals today have a copy-on-select feature, which means you don't need to ctrl-c at all. Just select and ctrl-v.

I want to chip in here with a rant of my own because I absolutely fucking hate this feature. The idea that something I think of as a passive action—selecting text—can destructively alter my clipboard makes my skin crawl, and it's baffling that anyone thinks it's a replacement.

The thing is it's the default on iTerm2 on the Mac, so every time I set it up I spend a week thinking "why is my clipboard always completely full of shite" before I remember and turn it off.

(YMMV, you may like this, you may actually have proper clipboard management, and so on. I didn't say this was a logically consistent rant.)

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#173

Post by bscphil »

rbreaves wrote: post #85
tasogare wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m using the two platforms but I would like the reverse: Windows shortcuts on Mac. I like the fact ctrl is further away from c and v, making it easier to type. Also Mac shortcuts in general are pretty wild (not to say insane) with 3 or 4 key to type at once... when shortcuts would gain to be shortcuted, the UX isn’t too good.

That's a feature built into macOS - you can easily change the location of your modifier keys on a mac and even if you couldn't Karabiner Elements works well and there are terminal based methods for rebinding as well.

From what I remember, I wasn't able to rebind the function (fn) key without using Karabiner. Has that changed recently?

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#174

Post by jamienicol »

kergonath wrote: post #131
kova12 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I empathize with you, but from the other side. I got a Mac at work while being on Linux for a long time; and the differences in keyboard combos are driving me mad, so much that I don't even use said Mac anymore. The differences in keyboard layout are so unnecessary from technical point. The only reason for them to exist is to lock people into the corresponding ecosystem. Whoever got that going deserves get a swift ki…

> The differences in keyboard layout are so unnecessary from technical point. The only reason for them to exist is to lock people into the corresponding ecosystem. Surely you’re aware that these keyboard shortcuts have been in use on Macs for about a decade before Linux existed, right?

That's the same argument Emacs developers use to justify alt (sorry, "meta") + w as copy. But it's a terrible argument.

(In the Mac case at least using cmd+c is superior, and even works in Emacs!)

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#175

Post by RealStickman_ »

francislavoie wrote: post #148
rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

I just solve that terminal issue by using a terminal that has "smart copy". The two I know of that do are pantheon-terminal (from elementaryOS) and kitty. The idea is that Ctrl+C behaves normally (sends SIGINT) unless you have text selected, in which case it will copy the selected text then clear the selection. So if you had something selected, you just hit Ctrl+C twice to send an interrupt if you need to, with the c…

You don't even need to use Ctrl+C in kitty. You can just select it and it will be in your clipboard.

And then just middle click to paste again.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#176

Post by 3np »

klodolph wrote: post #167
3np wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of disagree (I mean, ctrl+insert/shift+insert works consistently, right?) The one time I get really frustrated with conflicting keyboard shortcuts is when trying to do terminal work in a web browser, through, like the odd KVM session when SSH is down. The number of times I instinctively pressed Ctrl+W to correct a word in bash and instead close the whole session... Or, depending on emulator, inability to paste…

The insert key is consistent, but it’s so far away that it comes with a bunch of typos. I just can’t consistently hit keys that are so far away from the home row. Same with the Windows home/end for sending the cursor to the beginning/end of line. That entire block of keys is only useful for navigating documents, they’re just unergonomic to use when you’re also typing.

Yeah I get you.

For home/end:

Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E for all shells, ^/$ otherwise

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#177

Post by Someone »

bscphil wrote: post #171
francislavoie wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just solve that terminal issue by using a terminal that has "smart copy". The two I know of that do are pantheon-terminal (from elementaryOS) and kitty. The idea is that Ctrl+C behaves normally (sends SIGINT) unless you have text selected, in which case it will copy the selected text then clear the selection. So if you had something selected, you just hit Ctrl+C twice to send an interrupt if you need to, with the c…

This sounds to me like one of those ideas that's great in theory but real-life situations are too fragile to make it work. Suppose you're trying to copy something out of the window with a long-running process. You select some text and then press Ctrl-c, but whoops your hand jerked and you tapped c twice. Process killed. Or as you moved your hand to hit the shortcut, whoops you bumped the trackpack and clicked, desele…

“your hand jerked and you tapped c twice. Process killed”

I don’t see how that can happen. If you tap c twice, you either copy twice (copying keeps text selected), which is harmless, or, if you release the control key between the taps, type a c, which doesn’t kill the process.

The accidental deselect, on the other hand, can indeed be problematic.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#178

Post by tobyhinloopen »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

As a user of mac, ubuntu and windows, 100% agree.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#179

Post by toxik »

Someone wrote: post #177
bscphil wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds to me like one of those ideas that's great in theory but real-life situations are too fragile to make it work. Suppose you're trying to copy something out of the window with a long-running process. You select some text and then press Ctrl-c, but whoops your hand jerked and you tapped c twice. Process killed. Or as you moved your hand to hit the shortcut, whoops you bumped the trackpack and clicked, desele…

“your hand jerked and you tapped c twice. Process killed” I don’t see how that can happen. If you tap c twice, you either copy twice (copying keeps text selected), which is harmless, or, if you release the control key between the taps, type a c, which doesn’t kill the process. The accidental deselect, on the other hand, can indeed be problematic.

It was explicitly stated that copying deselected text and that ^C^C copies and kills.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#180

Post by toxik »

RealStickman_ wrote: post #175
francislavoie wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just solve that terminal issue by using a terminal that has "smart copy". The two I know of that do are pantheon-terminal (from elementaryOS) and kitty. The idea is that Ctrl+C behaves normally (sends SIGINT) unless you have text selected, in which case it will copy the selected text then clear the selection. So if you had something selected, you just hit Ctrl+C twice to send an interrupt if you need to, with the c…

You don't even need to use Ctrl+C in kitty. You can just select it and it will be in your clipboard. And then just middle click to paste again.

Ah yes but it’s not in your clipboard, it’s another buffer entirely.
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