You can't dialog with fascist.
Yes, apparently not.
You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
181–190 of 863 posts
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the problem there lies in the market power of the monopolies, not their speech.
So if there were 50 companies, and all of them censored you for saying something really unpopular, would things be any better? Critical infrastructure must be legally protected from censorship and (private, mandate-less) eavesdropping. Whether it is run by a monopoly or many small companies is immaterial.
Critical infrastructure has never been regarded as a public platform.
No one has been prevented from buying their own internet connection or DNS names and running their own site over the "common carrier" status internet backbone infrastructure.
It's just a lot less useful when your goal is radicalization and you need to hit the widest possible audience to get conversions.
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are completely missing the point. Because those laws exist, the argument for "free speech" and against censorship is ignorant. We don't have free speech and never had and never will, no country on earth has, because it's ridiculous to the point of been childish. Speech is not free, it has limits, like everything else. And about Alex Jones, the case proves beyond reasonable doubt that he should had been censored t…
No, you're looking at it in too black and white a way. It's not a decision between "no limits to speech at all" and "any limit is fine because free speech doesn't exist". The line, at least in the US, is that all speech is free unless it "incites imminent criminal behavior". And no, the criminal behavior doesn't include criminal speech (that's just circular logic). Yes, the line the US draws favors free speech far mo…
The line in the US is that you are free from retaliation by the government.
Private business and private individuals are free to set whatever rules they like about your behavior in their establishments.
They're also allowed to just not listen or want to repeat it.
If someone shoves a bunch of pamphlets in my hands, I'm allowed to dump them in the trash.
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#184Eliminate? No. Reduce to the point of practical irrelevance? Yep. Deplatforming works.
Deplatforming solves a problem. And only temporarily in the abundance of VPN & encrypted technologies. IMO it makes things even worse since these groups will congregate in secret much further away from the public eye where they can perpetuate unbalanced and unhealthy ideas.
If it made things "worse" they why are they not already doing those things?
These groups want to be on public platforms because their goal is to radicalize people. Or do you think that it was a mistake to kick ISIS and other radical Islam groups off Twitter too?
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
It works....in the short term...within a very narrow scope. And then suddenly, for no reason at all, someone incredibly well aligned with everyone you deplatformed rises to power.
They don't rise to power if the political system is sane. In many countries without First Past the Post systems, an extremist rises in popularity. Then when the final vote comes, it is revealed that most people are moderate and the crazy does not get into power.
Is there a sane political system?
FPTP is dogshit, agreed. But does even ranked choice voting result in a sane system? I'm not implying it can't. I honestly just don't know.
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#186So, what is extreme left to you? Which groups, existent groups, are they? This whole line of discussion seems to consist of some rich false equivalency being mediated by presuming the existence of equivalent opposing forces and then making them appear equal in size and threat by not talking about who they actually are.
I say this as someone who doesn't identify with the right or really care about any of these politics at all. Go google of a picture of the Minneapolis police department engulfed in flames shooting out 50 feet over the top. That was certainly a strongly predominantly left driven action.
The Minneapolis police department was set on fire by a "Boogaloo Boi".
... Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the building ... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo...
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#187Like most of these rants against "censorship" they skip over people's rights to restrict speech as a form of speech itself: there is no moral (or legal) right to give people you disagree with a forum or audience to express their view. Calling to silence others (that is, encouraging them to take your view of not giving them an audience) is fine as long as people have a choice on how to respond. If there is some notion…
If you are calling to silence people then you don’t believe in free speech. Simple as that.
Pretty much this.
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#188I'm surprised to see people agreeing with this hypothesis ... while commenting on HN. I'm a huge fan of the site rules ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) and the way they are applied by the moderation team. But that said, HN has the most heavy handed censorship of any site I frequent. Read all the rules from start to finish and ask yourself if you'd be ok following these rules in every Internet foru…
>show me a site without moderation that still has high quality discussion
4chan
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#189I know the article spends its time describing how anti hate speech laws in Western Europe are not working. But frankly they’re not enforced. I think this is why they don’t work. I see censorship has putting dirt under the carpet. People will try again. There’s no accountability. Social media censorship would ban flashing boobs with the same enthusiasm as Nazi propaganda. The latter is not a breach of terms and condit…
> “all Mexicans are rapists” (a Trump quote) How can any sane person claim this without even giving a source?
That's not a Trump quote.
Re: You can't censor away extremism or any other problem
#190Eliminate? No. Reduce to the point of practical irrelevance? Yep. Deplatforming works.
What if we starting deplatforming Jews or reducing Jewish influence to the point of pratical irrelevance? Would that be okay?