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Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

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Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#81

Post by SeanLuke »

quesera wrote: post #77
SeanLuke wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They add a key to the keyboard, an Alt or Meta equivalent called "Command". OK, awesome. Apple added three keys on the original Mac keyboard. The Command key, the Option key (which is used, more or less, as a second Shift key) and the Enter key (not to be confused with Return). The Enter key eventually was deprecated and made equivalent to keypad-Enter. It's now mapped to Shift-Return on Macs. The Option key, not t…

This is true, and it's an evolution from the Apple II (//, ][, etc) days which had two Apple keys (Open Apple and Closed Apple), one on each side of the space bar. I recall reading somewhere that Jobs hated Open Apple and Closed Apple. But thank goodness for ⌘ !

Actually, the Mac's keys are derived from the Lisa, whose release well predates the Apple IIe (the first II with the apple keys). Except for the numeric keypad, the Lisa keyboard differed from the Mac only in that the Lisa used an Apple symbol whereas the Mac used ⌘.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#82

Post by limeblack »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

Get a Japanese[1] keyboard and remap some keys around and you can accomplish this on Windows.

You will need SharpKeys[2] and Autohotkey[3] at least in my set up.

[1]: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61oeDlRN4QL...

[2]: https://www.randyrants.com/category/sharpkeys/

[3]: https://www.autohotkey.com/

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#83

Post by graywh »

I might need this when we finally go back to the office and I have to switch from the MBP w/ Magic Keyboard at home to my Ubuntu Dell workstation

now if I could only override some of the application shortcuts that can't be changed (like ctrl-w closing a tab or window)

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#84

Post by rbreaves »

breakfastduck wrote: post #16
beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

My main computer is a mac but I have to remote into windows machines often and switching between is horrible. I've remapped my gaming pc to mirror the mac layout because the instinct is so much stronger than whats written on the keys.

I have done pretty extensive testing, but I can confirm that my Kinto app does work with your type of configuration. The RDP applications that work is mentioned in the readme.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#85

Post by rbreaves »

tasogare wrote: post #75
beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

I’m using the two platforms but I would like the reverse: Windows shortcuts on Mac. I like the fact ctrl is further away from c and v, making it easier to type. Also Mac shortcuts in general are pretty wild (not to say insane) with 3 or 4 key to type at once... when shortcuts would gain to be shortcuted, the UX isn’t too good.

That's a feature built into macOS - you can easily change the location of your modifier keys on a mac and even if you couldn't Karabiner Elements works well and there are terminal based methods for rebinding as well.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#86

Post by quesera »

SeanLuke wrote: post #81
quesera wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, and it's an evolution from the Apple II (//, ][, etc) days which had two Apple keys (Open Apple and Closed Apple), one on each side of the space bar. I recall reading somewhere that Jobs hated Open Apple and Closed Apple. But thank goodness for ⌘ !

Actually, the Mac's keys are derived from the Lisa , whose release well predates the Apple IIe (the first II with the apple keys). Except for the numeric keypad, the Lisa keyboard differed from the Mac only in that the Lisa used an Apple symbol whereas the Mac used ⌘.

I remembered that the Mac Plus (1986) had ⌘, and that the //e and //c both had Open/Closed Apple keys, but wasn't sure about the transition through Lisa and the original Mac.

Wikipedia has both the //e and the Lisa with a release date of January 1983. But of course the Lisa project goes way back!

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#87

Post by rbreaves »

lewispb wrote: post #26

I was pleased to discover recently that Microsoft PowerToys are a thing again and include a Keyboard Manager utility. It's really simple to use and works flawlessly. It's nice to use an "official" product to remap the ctrl / cmd keys on my Apple keyboard while using my Windows PC. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/keyboard-...

Powertoys is pretty powerful and I have offered a few suggestions to them that I hope they will implement with their own remapping solution and last I heard they may very well be working on allowing for groups of applications to share similar key remaps.

I don't think Kinto will be switching over to leveraging PowerToys though because AutoHotKey has been able to accomplish everything it needs to do so far and frankly much more complicated remaps than what Powertoys can currently do. I did have some doubts about whether AutoHotKey would be better in all cases - as I initially ran into issues with RDP sessions, but have since worked those problems out for the most part. The problems that remain appear to be isolated to chromebooks RDPing into Windows & probably wouldn't impact 99% of the people that would use Kinto over RDP still. It's a very specific combo & most of the time it executes normally and I am the author and I dog food this project daily.

Additionally the remaps are non-permanent so there's no need to log off or back on like you would if were to use sharpkeys to do the remapping. Also it is by design - if you want to pair program with a co-worker and they don't share you're affinity for mac style hotkeys then toggling Kinto off is a couple of simple clicks of the mouse.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#88

Post by rbreaves »

rcthompson wrote: post #80

Can someone comment on how this works with GNOME, which uses the super key to show the window overview/launcher? Does that just get remapped to control, or does it do something special to keep it on the super key while remapping super+other key combos?

Super key mapping is removed during the install, if it is bound to anything, and ought to be the only system level key that is undone to prevent triggering of any menus. If you uninstall Kinto then it restores the keybinding, beyond that all remappings are non-permanent to the system level OS/distro.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#89

Post by rbreaves »

chrischen wrote: post #11

Every few years I try linux and hit this problem and each time the “solution” is to modify my behavior to ctrl+shift+c.

lol - or to do a kiss remapping that involves xmodmap or setxkbmap that still doesn't solve the problem either and then you are expected to individually remap whatever terminal you use per the terminal app preference settings or dot files that you ought to keep with you everywhere you go.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#90

Post by rbreaves »

MadWombat wrote: post #58

I am very confused. I am using a Mac for work and I am using Windows at home. And after reading the readme, I am still not sure what this thing does. Can someone explain?

How do hotkeys work on a mac? That's how they will work on everything else with Kinto. If you haven't used a mac then it will be more difficult to understand and explain because it does a lot more than just swapping a few keys around - but that is part of it.
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