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Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

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Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#51

Post by kova12 »

floydnoel wrote: post #20
beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

as a person who loves Macs and their keyboard shortcuts, I'm really excited to find this project! and as somebody like yourself, who has to work on both platforms (Apple/PC) every day, I'm very happy it exists. would the answer to your problem not be a reciprocal library for Mac that ports over (or makes possible) your preferred shortcuts? I believe this already exists, which should be good news for you.

I empathize with you, but from the other side. I got a Mac at work while being on Linux for a long time; and the differences in keyboard combos are driving me mad, so much that I don't even use said Mac anymore. The differences in keyboard layout are so unnecessary from technical point. The only reason for them to exist is to lock people into the corresponding ecosystem. Whoever got that going deserves get a swift kick in the nuts for every time I missed a key due to that nonsense

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#52

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

jimbob45 wrote: post #21
beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

Apple’s MO all along has been lock-in to their ecosystem any way they can make it happen, whether it be through their usability, their OS, their App Store, or iTunes. They don’t want to be interoperable because then you might realize you’re paying a huge premium for an inferior product.

Providing an extra key for shortcuts is hardly lock-in. “Doing it better” is not lock-in.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#53

Post by favorited »

kova12 wrote: post #51
floydnoel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a person who loves Macs and their keyboard shortcuts, I'm really excited to find this project! and as somebody like yourself, who has to work on both platforms (Apple/PC) every day, I'm very happy it exists. would the answer to your problem not be a reciprocal library for Mac that ports over (or makes possible) your preferred shortcuts? I believe this already exists, which should be good news for you.

I empathize with you, but from the other side. I got a Mac at work while being on Linux for a long time; and the differences in keyboard combos are driving me mad, so much that I don't even use said Mac anymore. The differences in keyboard layout are so unnecessary from technical point. The only reason for them to exist is to lock people into the corresponding ecosystem. Whoever got that going deserves get a swift ki…

> The only reason for them to exist is to lock people into the corresponding ecosystem

Or maybe Mac users have had that keyboard layout for decades and are happy with it? Anyone who really wants a Windows-style layout could just change their own anyway, so people must not be that bothered.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#55

Post by rubyn00bie »

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek.

'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best...

One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK in a fucking TERMINAL... Because `ctrl-c` sends an interrupt, I don't know what `ctrl-v` sends and I don't give a shit as long as it is not pasting my fucking buffer.

Seriously... on Linux this has got to be the worst default ever made. Sure `ctrl+shift-c` will copy things but it's fighting decades of fucking muscle memory... and if I miss the shift, "boom" repl killed. Great experience for someone totally new to the OS, just follow this tutorial, start by copying this from your spooky new black box: "[^C program exited." I'm willing to bet I ran into that exact thing years ago in highschool and just attributed it to me being a dumbass and gave up: "damn, I can't even copy paste shit in this, I'll never figure it out" instead of that being the worst most absurd default on a *nix system ever.

And the "Windows/Hyper" key? Ah yes, here's a key that was created to globally disrupt whatever you are doing. So where is the obvious location? In-between two keys that are ONLY used as modifiers; so, when you accidentally hit the wrong one you always lose focus. Even better is when you accidentally do so on both characters; enabling some obscure setting or window you can't correctly undo because you don't know what you pressed!

I'm glad to know there are at least some other sane people out there who have realized 1992 may not have been the pinnacle of desktop computing...

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#56

Post by [deleted] »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

[deleted]

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#57

Post by chmln »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

> One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK in a fucking TERMINAL... Because `ctrl-c` sends an interrupt

Most terminals today have a copy-on-select feature, which means you don't need to ctrl-c at all. Just select and ctrl-v.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#59

Post by setpatchaddress »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

You could use a Mac and avoid all of this nonsense entirely.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#60

Post by jacobolus »

chmln wrote: post #57
rubyn00bie wrote: post #55

This is great, btw. Kinto is 100% a sanity saver. Please note the following rant is mostly tongue-in-cheek. 'cuz it turns out, I personally hate how Windows and Linux do things with `ctrl`. Coming from a Mac, my biggest and most consistent annoyance is that the `ctrl` key is fucking useless at best... One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK…

> One of the most common use cases for the `ctrl` key is COPYING shit and followed by PASTING shit and it DOES NOT WORK in a fucking TERMINAL... Because `ctrl-c` sends an interrupt Most terminals today have a copy-on-select feature, which means you don't need to ctrl-c at all. Just select and ctrl-v.

A large number of keyboard shortcuts are in conflict. "One specific keyboard shortcut has a mouse-based workaround" is not really a good answer.

The Windows GUI copied the Mac’s keyboard shortcuts (originally from Lisa?) but didn't have a dedicated key for them so re-used the existing Ctrl key, which already had a meaning on text-based operating systems. (This happened because Microsoft had no input into hardware keyboard layouts, and wanted to make software compatible with the plethora of IBM-Model-M-layout keyboards available in 1985–1990.)

Then Linux GUIs wholesale copied every feature of Windows they could including the keyboard shortcuts, in a context where this was even worse, because now existing Ctrl-based shortcuts from terminal software were directly in conflict with new Ctrl-based shortcuts from Windows.

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