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Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

ispreview.co.uk

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Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#21

Post by chrisseaton »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #9

Snooping? Now doesn't that reek of newspeak? If anyone of us did that to someone else it would (at very the least) be stalking. When you track and log everything - for up to a year - that's not snooping. That's surveillance. Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.

> Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.

'Snooping' isn't candy-coated language in British English, and this is a British article. It's just another way to say surveillance. You're imagining a meaning that isn't there.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#22

Post by pdkl95 »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #8

i'm not as concerned as i might be. My rather meager understanding, which may be entirely baseless, is, that unlike the NSA which is obsessive about collecting every single scrap of data (and many large chunks), the UK intelligence services are rather more discerning. Again, i would be happy for someone to correct me, that's just the general impression i get.

I recommend reading this article, which includes leaked documents from GCHQ's Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG).

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#23

Post by barbacoa »

tokai wrote: post #18
linuxlizard wrote: post #6

Why didn't they just do what the US Gov did? Snoop but not tell anyone. Certainly would have saved them some grief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

If you want to bust people for petty crimes and not 'terror' it makes more sense with a publicly mandated system I guess.

The americans used warrantless wiretapping for petty crimes too. In fact i don't think they even used it for "terrorism".

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intel...

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#24

Post by mhh__ »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #14
Enginerrrd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the NSA famously uses the UK as a loophole to spy on American citizens. That suggests that they probably aren't particularly discerning to me.

All it suggests is that the UK is happy to curry favour with the US government and doesn't give a hoot about the perceived rights of American citizens. Harsh, but true. Their own citizens are an entirely different ballpark, as you might say.

The UK government is also even more lax than the US one with regard to its own citizens privacy.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#25

Post by marshmallow_12 »

curiousgal wrote: post #5
collsni wrote: post #2

So essentially they're collecting net flow data on every citizen. It may be kind of fun to overload their storage by creating a ton of short connections, probably wouldn't be feasible.

I mean if they could get the act to pass I am sure they get storage funding too.

But for how long will they manage to hang on to it? Here's a laugh if you want https://www.silicon.co.uk/data-storage/database/police-delet...

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#26

Post by bartread »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
chiefalchemist wrote: post #9

Snooping? Now doesn't that reek of newspeak? If anyone of us did that to someone else it would (at very the least) be stalking. When you track and log everything - for up to a year - that's not snooping. That's surveillance. Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.

> Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves. 'Snooping' isn't candy-coated language in British English, and this is a British article. It's just another way to say surveillance. You're imagining a meaning that isn't there.

Brit here: can concur. 'Snooping' is pejorative in British English. It implies that (at the very least) you are sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, and always carries a hint of sinister overtone.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#27

Post by incompatible »

linuxlizard wrote: post #6

Why didn't they just do what the US Gov did? Snoop but not tell anyone. Certainly would have saved them some grief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...

The article says they are trying: "The IPAct effectively prohibits ISPs from talking about much of this, which makes it difficult to verify the details"

I'm not sure if the "URL" column in a table in the article is supposed to contain URLs. In the example it only has domain names. I don't think full URLs can be obtained from SSL/TLS connections.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#28

Post by [deleted] »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #9

Snooping? Now doesn't that reek of newspeak? If anyone of us did that to someone else it would (at very the least) be stalking. When you track and log everything - for up to a year - that's not snooping. That's surveillance. Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#29

Post by londons_explore »

jimbob45 wrote: post #16
chiefalchemist wrote: post #9

Snooping? Now doesn't that reek of newspeak? If anyone of us did that to someone else it would (at very the least) be stalking. When you track and log everything - for up to a year - that's not snooping. That's surveillance. Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.

I don’t want to derail a very interesting thread but IMHO snooping has a darker connotation than surveilling.

The night security guard surveills the premisis.

Your school nemesis snoops on what you're up to to try to embarrass or one-up you in some way.

Surveillance can be good or bad. Snooping is always bad.

Re: Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

#30

Post by gruez »

tgragnato wrote: post #10
collsni wrote: post #2

So essentially they're collecting net flow data on every citizen. It may be kind of fun to overload their storage by creating a ton of short connections, probably wouldn't be feasible.

Rest sure things like masscan and file sharing will be singled out and excluded from long term storage. If I recall correctly there is a process called massive volume reduction by which you filter out “uninteresting stuff”. It’s not a bad idea, but you’ll need something more sophisticated.

>If I recall correctly there is a process called massive volume reduction by which you filter out “uninteresting stuff”.

So all you have to do to avoid surveillance is to make a bunch of connections so the system gets overwhelmed and ignores you?

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