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We created a fake language to root out resume liars

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Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#741
post #126

Serious question: if you're applying for positions you're not totally confident in your experience and skillset, do you inflate your resume? My thinking goes that if I slip in by being dishonest, I'll be nervous of being found out, feel an intruder. So being honest and taking a longer time looking for match would get more comfort later on.

We recently discovered that someone lied about their one of their skills during the interview. We fired them. End of story. No other option. Do not lie on your resume or during the interview. I've never worked at a company that it wasn't grounds for immediate dismissal.

Do not lie on your resume or during the interview.

There are lies and there are lies. For example I wrote some shell scripts to create VMs in AWS and install some packages on them. This appears on my resume as "expert in rapid provisioning of infrastructure as code in the cloud" or something like that. It sounds a lot more grandiose than it really is, but that's just how the game is played these days.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#742
post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was doing some interviews and the resumes we were getting were like 5+ pages long. Maybe it was some cultural difference or something but I'd always been told to keep my resume to 1 page front & back at the absolute longest. Turns out it was a different resume that the recruiters would send us. They were garbage in quality and I hate them. Fuck recruiters.

It's not cultural. I think the agencies are trying to put in every single keyword and "skill" to get past algorithmic filters and also make sure non-technical managers see the words they are looking for. At a past role we were looking for a contract Tableau person and one of the agencies that was approved by HR sent me 20+ resumes. All of them were 5+ pages, with things like "Made a Bar Chart in Tableau," "Made a Pie…

I'm not sure entirely that it's not cultural, though I'd love for someone to confirm. I interviewed with a recruiter for jobs in Australia, and they asked that I make my resume into a novel.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When hiring, we filter applications on what they claim on the CV but also actually dig into the required skills on interview. If we find a mismatch, it invalidates the candidate as a whole. If someone claims 8 years of MOVA but doesn't know basic stuff about MOVA semantics, they were either lying, they are incompetent, or they have been coasting.

When I started interviewing I used to do that, until I realised it would eliminate about 20% of all useful candidates. The killer is c++. The industry is filled with people who have vague memories of trying to use C++ in the 90s before switching to Java or c# as quickly as possible, but still put C++ on their resume. In reality they can't even do basic tasks like reading a file into an array. Knocking them out becaus…

> do basic tasks like reading a file into an array

not 100% on-topic, but that's an interesting one because I'd expect many active devs could stumble over: Reading a file isn't difficult, but it's also not something you actually do very often. If you do C++, you're often working in large projects where reading files is something done by libraries, custom wrappers, ... It's firmly in "if you need it, once every few years, it's in the docs" land.

Whereas I do comparatively little code in Python, but a lot of it is small one-off scripting where file handling using the basic facilities is typical.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same job for 9 years, but I'm not marketable. I guess I fall into the bad developer category.

I'd say that puts you in the good developer category, or someone with a job they like. Hopefully both!

I hate my job. I'm unmarketable because I became an expert in two obscure stacks.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#746
post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see things like that and assume that everyone involved in writing, reviewing, and processing the position it advertises is either incompetent, negligent, or playing a game. Ultimately, I don’t care to know why, because there are other jobs with better teams at better companies.

I’ll repeat my reply above: you would have made an assumption without knowing facts or trying to ask questions

If I took the time to ask probing questions every time someone makes a bad first impression, I wouldn’t have time to work, eat, or sleep. My heuristics have served me well, and I’m sticking with them.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#747
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in guessing ова is pronounced ova?

The letters correspond. From the perspective of Russian, you can't know the pronunciation without knowing which syllable is stressed. Ова will be pronounced "ova" if the first syllable is stressed, but "ava" if the second is. Most modern-day approaches to spelling foreign words aren't concerned with whether the spelling suggests anything close to the correct pronunciation. They concern themselves more, as here, with…

Compare how Chinese immigrants in the 19th century might get names like 王 Wong, 李 Lee, or 魯 Loo, whereas Chinese immigrants today have names like 王 Wang, 李 Li, or 鲁 Lu.

I am afraid, your observations and conclusions are incorrect.

Wong, Lee (pronounced as Lei), Loo (pronounced and spelled as Law nowadays) are the Cantonese readings of Chinese names; whereas Wang, Li and Lü are Mandarin pronounciations of 王, 李 and 魯, respectively.

Lee (as «e» in Padme from the Star Wars) and Loo («oo» as in «door») are an artefact of one of the first attempts by the British to come up with the standardised English spelling for Chinese names they had perceived through the lens of the Cantonese language and culture. One would have to look back into the history of Europeans coming into the first contact with the Chinese civilisation, of which the British had been one of the first frontiers (let's not digress into a discussion of the historical background nor merits of that having taken place, for that is not the point I am trying to bring across).

The British had come into their first contact with the Qing China through Canton in the late 18th century where Cantonese was the prevailing language, with Mandarin (官話) being relegated to the status of the language of mandarins, the Chinese imperial court and those willing to pass imperial exams. It took the British (and European missionaries) a few decades to realise that China had had a multitude of different – often mutually unintelligible – Chinese languages, in which the same character (漢字) had a distinct pronunciation. Speakers of their own mother tongue (be it a Yue, Wu, Gan etc language) would pronounce the same 漢字 according to phonetic rules of their own native tongue. For instance, 林 is pronounced as «Lam» in Cantonese but as «Lin» in Mandarin; 吳 is «Ng» in Cantonese, but it is pronounced as «Goh» in Teochew and as «Wu» in Mandarin; likewise, 金 is «Gan» (Cantonese) vs «Jian» (Mandarin), 等等...

The first migration wave out of China into the US mostly came from Lingnan (the area encompassing Gwong Sai, Gwong Dung, Hoi Naam and parts of the today's northern Vietnam). The majority of them, however, spoke Teochew – a Yue Chinese language, that is related but is not mutually intelligible with Cantonese. US Chinatown dwellers used to speak Teochew for over a century before Cantonese started to take hold in the second half of the 20th century.

Since the migration of Chinese nationals had been forbidden since the times of the Ming dynasty, and with the British controlling the Canton port in the late 19th century onwards, Canton (Gwong Jau nowadays) was pretty much the only viable exit point for migrants out of China seeking an escape from the Qing for their own reasons; hence they would have had to obtain the exit immigration documents at Canton with their Teochew names spelled out using the English spelling the British had adopted for spelling out the Cantonese names earlier on. Hence Wong, Lee and Loo and not Wang, Li or Lü (or actual Teochew spelling). The former ones are in active use in Hong Kong today, whereas the latter ones are encountered in the mainland Chinese names.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#748
post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not cultural. I think the agencies are trying to put in every single keyword and "skill" to get past algorithmic filters and also make sure non-technical managers see the words they are looking for. At a past role we were looking for a contract Tableau person and one of the agencies that was approved by HR sent me 20+ resumes. All of them were 5+ pages, with things like "Made a Bar Chart in Tableau," "Made a Pie…

I'm not sure entirely that it's not cultural, though I'd love for someone to confirm. I interviewed with a recruiter for jobs in Australia, and they asked that I make my resume into a novel.

I wasn't trying to imply that all countries have similar expectations of resume format and length. I was just saying that if all the resumes from recruiting firms are atypically long, it's probably the recruiting firm that is responsible. It's not because they employ people on visa or anything like that.

I'm an immigrant to the US, and in my home country resumes are all really long. Even people who have never had a job and just finished their bachelors somehow find a way to have 5 page resumes. I think immigrants to the US in IT/Tech roles figure out fairly quickly that they need to drastically reduce the lengths of the resumes.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The letters correspond. From the perspective of Russian, you can't know the pronunciation without knowing which syllable is stressed. Ова will be pronounced "ova" if the first syllable is stressed, but "ava" if the second is. Most modern-day approaches to spelling foreign words aren't concerned with whether the spelling suggests anything close to the correct pronunciation. They concern themselves more, as here, with…

Compare how Chinese immigrants in the 19th century might get names like 王 Wong, 李 Lee, or 魯 Loo, whereas Chinese immigrants today have names like 王 Wang, 李 Li, or 鲁 Lu. I am afraid, your observations and conclusions are incorrect. Wong, Lee (pronounced as Lei), Loo (pronounced and spelled as Law nowadays) are the Cantonese readings of Chinese names; whereas Wang, Li and Lü are Mandarin pronounciations of 王, 李 and 魯,…

> I am afraid, your observations and conclusions are incorrect.

You say that, and then you go on to demonstrate that you have no idea what you're talking about.

It's quite true that the earlier waves of Chinese immigrants spoke Min and Yue languages. That is the reason I didn't use 周 Chow/Zhou as an example. Those aren't the same sounds.

But it's not at all true that Wong and Lee reflect different sounds than do Wang and Li. They are one and the same. Furthermore, the Mandarin pronunciation of the surname 魯 is not lü, it is lu.

If a Mandarin speaker surnamed 王 wanted to have their name pronounced as closely as possible by English speakers, they would spell it Wong -- just as the southerners named 王 (and 黄) actually did when they arrived in the 19th century, or as they actually did in Hong Kong under the British. The spelling Wang concerns itself with an "official spelling" at the expense of readers being able to pronounce the name -- which, if you'll notice, is exactly what I said up above.

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