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Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

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Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#21

Post by simongray »

helmholtz wrote: post #13
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

I'm Indian, and some of the most amusing conversations I've had about food have been with Italians. An Italian professor was insistent that I stand up and defend the need for Indian food to use a million spices. He was proud of the fact that delicious Italian food could be whipped up using just three ingredients. I was in full agreement with him, that Italian food was wonderful, and that it was commendable how far th…

I have had similar conversations with Italians about food or coffee. They're very passionate about both and - at least when it comes to coffee - will also get into heated discussions over it with other Italians, not just foreigners. I think it's just the culture.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#22

Post by maury91 »

dsomers wrote: post #16
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Are you from the North? I know in Southern Italy red peppers are popular on some dishes. E.G. Spaghetti Aglio e Olio

I'm from center ( Sardinia ), we also do Aglio, olio e peperoncino. We do use spicy peppers, but I must say they are not so common, majority of recipes don't use them but some people add them to taste.

I do also like to add some spiciness, but the problem is that if you add just a little bit too much you taste only the spiciness and nothing else

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#23

Post by foobar33333 »

Teracotage wrote: post #19
tchalla wrote: post #4

> Serving richly spiced stews was no longer a status symbol for Europe's wealthiest families — even the middle classes could afford to spice up their grub. "So the elite recoiled from the increasing popularity of spices," Ray says. "They moved on to an aesthetic theory of taste. Rather than infusing food with spice, they said things should taste like themselves. Meat should taste like meat, and anything you add only…

That is common in many other Asian countries, in Indonesia, some would bake fish as it is without anything, then you would add whatever you want when you take your cut to your plate, salt and other spices. It is a legitimate way of thinking about purity of foods and drinks I think. Coffee connoisseurs would not dilute the coffee with sugar nor cardamon, in the Levant for example.

>Coffee connoisseurs would not dilute the coffee with sugar

This seems to be a regional thing. In Australia I haven't actually seen anyone ever add sugar to coffee and these people aren't huge coffee enthusiasts. Other than premixed ice coffee.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#24

Post by lonesword »

maury91 wrote: post #22
dsomers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from the North? I know in Southern Italy red peppers are popular on some dishes. E.G. Spaghetti Aglio e Olio

I'm from center ( Sardinia ), we also do Aglio, olio e peperoncino. We do use spicy peppers, but I must say they are not so common, majority of recipes don't use them but some people add them to taste. I do also like to add some spiciness, but the problem is that if you add just a little bit too much you taste only the spiciness and nothing else

I spent one day in Cagliari and had a lovely time. One afternoon is an injustice to the island, but the whole trip was spurred by Ryan air's 10 euros flight tickets from Rome :D

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#25

Post by NullPrefix »

maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Oh, you burned your food? It's ok, there's ketchup.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#26

Post by oytis »

> They moved on to an aesthetic theory of taste. Rather than infusing food with spice, they said things should taste like themselves. Meat should taste like meat, and anything you add only serves to intensify the existing flavors.

That sounds a lot like Japanese cuisine too, so we are not alone.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#27

Post by Melting_Harps »

maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

No post body was provided.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#28

Post by reader_mode »

helmholtz wrote: post #13
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

I'm Indian, and some of the most amusing conversations I've had about food have been with Italians. An Italian professor was insistent that I stand up and defend the need for Indian food to use a million spices. He was proud of the fact that delicious Italian food could be whipped up using just three ingredients. I was in full agreement with him, that Italian food was wonderful, and that it was commendable how far th…

If you want to be snobbishly criticised about arbitrary food choices by strangers Italy is the place.

I've worked for a client in Italy, a short guy trying to aggressively assert superiority because of how he drinks coffee is a uniquely Italian experience. Oh and the hands and feet mime English is equally entertaining.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#29

Post by leto_ii »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #27
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Quoted post unavailable.

> One of my sous chefs dated an Indian women and despite being a blond, blue eyed German/Polish mixed male from the midwest he was the most vociferous about for Indian cuisine I have ever met, even Indians

Why would somebody's hair/eye color matter when it comes to their culinary preferences?

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#30

Post by Melting_Harps »

maury91 wrote: post #22
dsomers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from the North? I know in Southern Italy red peppers are popular on some dishes. E.G. Spaghetti Aglio e Olio

I'm from center ( Sardinia ), we also do Aglio, olio e peperoncino. We do use spicy peppers, but I must say they are not so common, majority of recipes don't use them but some people add them to taste. I do also like to add some spiciness, but the problem is that if you add just a little bit too much you taste only the spiciness and nothing else

> I'm from center ( Sardinia ), we also do Aglio, olio e peperoncino. We do use spicy peppers, but I must say they are not so common, majority of recipes don't use them but some people add them to taste.

The center [0] would be Emilia Romanga, no? I was led to believe that Sardinia, like Corisca, is its own thing culturally speaking, isn't? I mena its been inhabited and conquered by every major European/Arab power at some point and its food definitely reflects that.

Then again I'm also a walking contradiction: I lived and worked in Modena and Maranello and I'd cook southern recipes in an agrotourism kitchen with Northern and Central ingredients. I loved the look when as a Californian I nailed the right balance of spiciness and savoriness to satisfy a northerner (say Milan) for another order on something like pasta con le sarde.

The owner, from Sicily, was always taken back by how well accepting his clientele (mainly Ferrari factory workers or eco-tourists from the North visiting the countryside) were to Southern dishes, especially those that 'a Californian made' who has to date never stepped foot in the 'proper' South.

The furthest south I've ever gone was Bologna! I just really like southern cuisine and cooked and read a bunch of old hand me down cookbooks the owner brought with him and blogs and misc videos online while I did my apprenticeship in ER. I just find it more interesting as Northern food always felt too bloaty given it's emphasis on cheeses, butters and creams, which after having spent most of my time in Switzerland felt redundant.

0: https://martinmb.wixsite.com/ilmeteomartinmb/post/emilia-rom...

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