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For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

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Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#111
post #79

The problem for Microsoft is that they continue to serve two masters: consumer users and corporate users. Corporate IT shops, especially within certain industries, can be exceptionally wary of anything that moves data outside their walls. Consumers are in general not nearly so picky. Corporations are MS's biggest customers and for years have had considerable influence on product direction. It's just not in Microsoft'…

Are you suggesting that Chinese will buy an iPad to do their computing?

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#112

I have to agree with the Chronicle's basic point which is that Microsoft has talked about "cloud computing" for a long time and not delivered anything. Even a bad anything. Its a very good example of the Innovator's Dilemma [1] in action, you've got some smart folks who see a future problem, and start creating interesting technology and vision around that problem, and then the reality that the company doesn't "need"…

Microsoft has talked about "cloud computing" for a long time and not delivered anything. Even a bad anything.

They haven't delivered Live SkyDrive, or Windows Live, or http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/ or http://www.microsoft.com/online/exchange-hosted-services.asp... or http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/solutions/hostedcrm.a... or http://www.microsoft.com/online/sharepoint-online.aspx or http://www.hotmail.com or the MSN Music store?

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#113

I don't know that anything Apple is doing is that revolutionary, the difference is that Apple and Jobs are phenomenal at presenting the idea so that people actually get it. I'm sure there are a lot of Microsoft execs right now that are saying "we already do that with product X" and pretty pissed off that they were never able to sell product X over 5 years the way Apple did in an hour. The bottom line is that Apple kn…

Exactly, all this is is marketing, yet a lot of the commenters here have been swept up in it.

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#114
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vapourware There's a beta. Register and download it.

No thanks, Google will host my personal data for free, and it works on all platforms.

Actually, the cost is your click habits. Google is all about getting advertisers to sign on by saying "we have better information on all these people because we house all their data." If you are comfortable with that, that's fine.

Personally, I like Apple's (and for the most part Microsoft) "we don't give a shit about you unless you pay us money." When I stop paying them, I don't have to worry about them keeping any of my data. When I stop using Google products do I have the same guarantee? This is the same argument I use against Facebook.

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#115

Microsoft has a marketing problem, they have a lot of cloud services like Skydrive, Live Mesh etc. but are not able to grab the attention of consumers or media like Jobs is able to, on stage. However, Windows 8 seems to be coming with a ton of integrated cloud features so I don't know about the humiliation part.I just don't see that their marketshare is affected more than 1% specifically due to the cloud services in…

I'm sure Windows 8 will be a huge improvement over iOS5. It has to be to adhere to corporate needs. No large buiness is going to want to put anything in Apple's datacenters, and iOS5 will not allow any type of serious adminitstration or configuration, or it would threaten what Apple is trying to build. i.e. iOS5 comes in any color you like, as long as it's black or white.

When Win8 is released, it will be the defacto standard inside Fortune 500s and that's all Microsoft really cares about.

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#116
post #92
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that one of the spectacularly failed Windows powered tablets from yesteryear would succeed today, because the "timing is right"? No. Those products were terrible, horrible, awful products, that's why they failed. The timing for tablets is evidently perfect now, and yet not all tablets are succeeding in the market. Because they suck.

There is more than just market/customer timing. It comes down to available components. Li-poly battery tech + cheap lightweight capacitive display + available 3G radios and networks also heavily contributed to the success of iPad.

The Steve Jobs WWDC 1997 speech that was linked on here the other day - he was talking about his dream for the future, and mentioned that he doesn't want a hand writing computer with local storage like the Newton, he wants a screen and a keyboard which syncs to the network data stores where his data is.

iPad pretty much does that, at least for email and buying audio and video and apps from iTMS. Windows tablets didn't - they were local data, handwriting based, windowed Apps, like a movable desktop.

They didn't just fail because their spec was poor and their tech was early, they failed because they weren't a compelling thing to use, they were like an ordinary computer but worse.

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#117

I have to agree with the Chronicle's basic point which is that Microsoft has talked about "cloud computing" for a long time and not delivered anything. Even a bad anything. Its a very good example of the Innovator's Dilemma [1] in action, you've got some smart folks who see a future problem, and start creating interesting technology and vision around that problem, and then the reality that the company doesn't "need"…

Microsoft has talked about "cloud computing" for a long time and not delivered anything. Even a bad anything. They haven't delivered Live SkyDrive, or Windows Live, or http://www.microsoft.com/windowsazure/ or http://www.microsoft.com/online/exchange-hosted-services.asp... or http://www.microsoft.com/hosting/en/us/solutions/hostedcrm.a... or http://www.microsoft.com/online/sharepoint-online.aspx or http://www.hotmail…

In all of those things I see a "me too!" response to some other product.

Windows Live Gmail services

Azure Amazon AWS / Google AppServ

Sharepoint DropBox / Google {Docs|Groups}

Hotmail Gmail

MSN Music iTunes

But what the Chronicle was pointing out (and others here) is that the iCloud stuff is (if Jobs is accurate) the 'rest' of your UX experience with everything in their product line. For me its the difference between telling all your developers "You can assume that iCloud will be attached to this device" and "add #ifdef (some optional service) other feature."

One is point responses to specific offerings through network services, and the other is retooling your architecture and baking in network connectivity.

Googe Maps vs Streets and Trips was always one of those things, Maps doesn't work if you're not connected to the Internet, S&T does because of its builtin database. As that decision relates to customer facing issues, in the Google case your map is always (nearly) current, in the S&T case you may not know that the freeway extension was completed last year. But Google loses when you can't connect you get slow (Edge) or no maps on your phone, but not a problem for S&T. Google 'bakes in' the assumption that you're on the network.

"Delivering on the vision" requires a vision to exist and be articulated, and then to outline a roadmap of deliverables between now and the time you feel like the vision is 'delivered.' To my way of looking at things that is where Microsoft could do much much better than they have.

[update: fair point on sharepoint, I admit I didn't know it existed until it was offered as an alternative to what Google had to offer. I'm guessing that it was very enterprise targeted early on. ]

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#119
Yes, "the cloud" is a vision that Microsoft has proclaimed and never been able to implement. It really required re-thinking the operating system. Microsoft's operating system was just too big and unwieldy to be re-engineered in this way. If Apple truly has pulled it off, a large part of the reason is that their OS was much more malleable and could handle this kind of thing.

But I think iCloud is more than "annoying" to Google. It shows Apple is competing with them head-to-head for cloud customers. And if there are network effects and permanent lock-in, then this is a very, very important battle.

Google really has written an operating system where you can take your data and configuration with you wherever you go. But you have to switch to a new computer and operating system and a completely different way of thinking!

Apple hasn't truly re-written the operating system the way Google has. They have made some important strides to helping people get their most important data into the cloud. Then they announce iCloud, over-hype it, and hope that the reality distortion field does the rest.

The big advantage that iCloud has, though, is Apple can leverage their entire installed user base. Millions of people can begin to use iCloud NOW, for $29! That's orders of magnitude simpler than having to buy a new computer. It's not a complete cloud solution like ChromeOS, but it might be good enough for now. And with Apple, the transition will be gradual and the learning curve will be easy.

So I think Google should be very worried about iCloud...

Re: For Google, iCloud Is Annoying; For Microsoft, It's A Humiliation

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the SkyDrive features at the MS event? No. Actually neither did I. In fact it wasn't in the recent MS events. In fact it was announced with with a blog entry: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_live/b/windowslive/archiv... Why didn't MS talk about this at their special Mango VIP event? No idea. MS seems to think that getting too much attention for features is a bad thing.

I agree. It appears that turn by turn navigation (via Bing Maps) is also coming in the Mango update and if so, it would be a really big differentiator (only Android has it thus far) for their platform. Not a peep during their event. -- John Gruber recently critiqued the Windows 8 preview video that was uploaded to youtube. It looked like a high school project. I doubt Apple would ever preview their OS with such a poo…

Whoever shot that video had no idea what they were doing. Get a lav mike or boom mike, for a start, so that your primary narration track doesn't pick up all the reverb from the room. It was definitely amateurish - not only would Apple not do such a crappy job, I doubt most startups would, either.

You can have an outsourced service make a demo video with proper voiceover for less than $1,000. That video from Microsoft is just sloppy, not frugal or homespun.

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