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Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

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Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#151

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The sustainability of that model of responsibility must be in doubt, though. Take a simple case like a website that loads a resource from somewhere else. Given how the technology works, any model where the original site is responsible for everything and the user's data is supposedly protected is obviously misleading, because very often it's the third party services that are run by the bigger, more powerful, data-hoov…

In that situation, the third-party that is actively collecting and transmitting the data becomes a controller and is subject to regulation. Under the predominant data transfer model, the third-parties cede responsibility by making the data transfer an active behavior by businesses. Ad tech companies can say "We didn't actively collect the data from customers - we passively received it from businesses." That makes a h…

In that situation, the third-party that is actively collecting and transmitting the data becomes a controller and is subject to regulation.

And yet they may have no direct interaction with the user/data subject, who may not even be aware that they exist, so this model is still flawed.

"Data hoovering" is a misconception that allows millions of businesses who actively send customer data to Google/FB to shift privacy criticism onto the platforms.

I would have much more sympathy for this point of view if the likes of Google and Facebook were transparent with businesses integrating with them about what that really means in practice. For example, if we did a survey of local stores with simple websites that include any Facebook asset on their site, how many of them do you think could accurately describe the implications in terms of tracking their users? What about sites that use Google Fonts? I'm not even talking about asking businesses to actively upload their user contact details for targeting or deliberate tracking like Google Analytics or Facebook pixels here, just the incorporation of any third party resource into a website.

It's also important to say that this isn't just about Google and Facebook. Many third party resources you might incorporate into a site for some reasonable purpose could also be used for tracking, while the site operators may or may not be fully aware of what is being done and the visitors may not be aware of the resources at all. Think of a CDN used to improve performance or a payment service that recommends including its scripts across all pages on a site to feed into risk analysis, for example.

The general problem is the same in all of these cases. The way the technology actually works doesn't match with the way authorities are attempting to regulate it. Unless you're willing to interpret the current regulations strongly enough that some behaviours with legitimate uses are also effectively prohibited across the entire Web (at least within your jurisdiction) I'm not sure you can ever square this circle as a regulator operating within the current frameworks.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#152

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The valuation of current tech companies is way astronomical compared to what is considered normal for mature companies. The average price to sales for S&P used to be between 1.5-2.5 for many decades. However for these newly IPO companies the price to sales ratios are around 10-15. Similarly the P/E ratio for S&P companies used to be in the 15-25 range to the considered normal . However with these internet companies,…

> However with these internet companies, they usually do not turn a profit or if they do, their PE ratios usually lingers in from ~100 to 1000. And the market considers that normal behavior now. That's not normal, it's pure stupid. So if you don't think there are people sitting on the sidelines watching idiots bid up shares way, way beyond the replacement value of companies, you're not watching the same thing happen…

The problem is that there's too much money lying around and nowhere to spend. Look at Softbank: throwing money at some most absurd companies with the hopes someone else will pick up dogs shit when they're gone. VCs are flushed with money and that's how the model works. At least for now.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#153
post #98
post #54

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I believe only a few of the original Zapier folks have options (I don't hold any myself, for example but I joined when they were around 70 people).

Wow, this should be the headline. Bootstrapped unicorns are somewhat rare. But bootstrapped unicorns with no employee equity is a whole other level.

If it was hiring locally in San Fran, maybe,but it's a fully remote company with many devs in places where things like stock options sound are as distant dream as $100K salary being on the low end of things. Europe is full of successful companies,albeit not necessarily with such valuations, where any stock distribution is unheard of.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#154

Sometimes I get shocked by these numbers and it reminds me how little I know about business. Like if you showed me the wikipedia page for Zapier and asked me give it some value, I would be way off. Or if you pitched the business idea to me, I would tell you do something better with your time.

>Sometimes I get shocked by these numbers and it reminds me how little I know about business. This is because you lack the most overlooked and most difficult to teach skill in investing: empathy. Zapier lets non-programmers, the vast majority of the planet, do things that programmers do. Many programmers have poor empathy and thus make bad salespeople and investors. If you can understand how most of the planet thinks…

Imagine just blasting out at a person that you've never met and know essentially nothing about, based on a few sentences they wrote regarding startup valuations that "they lack empathy". As in you are willing to assess this other person as being completely devoid of empathy.

That seems fairly insane.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people would prefer to be paid a good salary for doing good work, rather than uncertain lottery tickets and an obligation to understand how they work. I think most companies would prefer to operate this way, too.

Once companies start paying $500k-1mil/yr liquid - fine. But as it stands, I make a lot of money off those "uncertain" lottery tickets and demand a lot of them wherever I go.

This is mostly a US only thing, outside of it there are very few places where this would even be an option.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#157
post #126
post #95

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why wouldn't someone just hire a developer to do this? My understanding is that the market for contractors is oversaturated right now. You could probably pay someone hundreds of dollars to write software that interacts with web services etc if you look hard enough Like the grandparent comment, it's hard for me to imagine that there are enough people in need of this service to justify a $5B valuation

The process of hiring someone for 'Download attachments from this email address to my Dropbox, then create a note in Quickbooks to pay the invoice' is a lot more complicated / expensive than just using Zapier. I think you're overestimating what people use Zapier for.

I think someone could make a good living as a Zapier consultant.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#158
post #109

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> What's the point of owning the stock? to sell for capital gains when it is higher in the future. Dividends aren't the only way to generate a profit. And for a lot of high income earners, dividends are very tax inefficient as well.

There's a term for when everyone buys something just because you can sell it to someone else for more later. It's called a bubble.

Yep but when our 401ks auto buy in there's a bit of a stop gap. Also I think the bigger reason is that with tech people expect a nonlinear impact. Amazon being the example. So not only revenue break even but market growth and new market opportunities.

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#159
post #95

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I’m not surprised that people on a developer focused forum would find little to no value in something that enables automation without programming. Y’all can probably automate interactions with hundreds of web based services in your sleep, using multiple languages, with unit tests, and a Turing complete ML-based proxy server for high availability. For the rest of us, Zapier is a little like magic. Granted there are ot…

why wouldn't someone just hire a developer to do this? My understanding is that the market for contractors is oversaturated right now. You could probably pay someone hundreds of dollars to write software that interacts with web services etc if you look hard enough Like the grandparent comment, it's hard for me to imagine that there are enough people in need of this service to justify a $5B valuation

> why wouldn't someone just hire a developer to do this?

...

> You could probably pay someone hundreds of dollars to write software that interacts with web services etc.

The reason is exactly that. They don't want to pay hundreds for a dev to dev for them, and that's just for 'one' integration, with Zapier they can always add whatever they want. They'd rather have the 'cheaper' option (which to be real doesn't always end up being cheaper in the long run, but sometimes does).

The

Re: Zapier reached a $5B valuation with $1.3M of funding

#160
post #63

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It's also unclear just how much IFTTT influenced that start of Zapier. IFTTT was announced only about 10 months earlier than Zapier. Zapier announced right around when IFTTT has a live prototype. REST APIs were really hitting popularity at that point, so services like these were becoming more & more obvious-- simultaneous invention is a thing. [0] Also, years earlier, there had been a relatively similar offering from…

RIP Yahoo Pipes! It even had a GUI editor. Reminded me of an ETL tool much more than Zapier did (even though in some ways that is what they both are).

Nextflow is kinda like this.
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