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Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

japantoday.com

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Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#171

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I hones…

I don't know why they didn't just delay it for 4 years and push the rest back effectively missing 1 games.

What about the athletes who have been training for the event?

Some of them won’t get a chance to participate in 4 years time.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#172
Aside:

I think that having the Olympics in one place for each season would be most 'entertaining', and better for the IOC.

Let's take the summer Olympics, likely to be in Athens as the spot. 'Top' countries would then pay pretty good money to have practice locations around Athens, so that the athletes get used to the area and are comfortable with the event locations. Heck, you could have them use the actual facilities as well.

Now, as is usual with Olympic coverage, the lead-up is all about how terrible things are going, and the ~two weeks of it are all about how the Olympic Village is running out of condoms. Not to be too crass, but having many athletes in Athens all the time would be a 24/7 discussion about very fit young people's intimate relationships and national pride.

It's a TV goldmine. And one the IOC can license.

Think about it: something like a HS-teen drama, with very beautiful/fit people, all in a crowded space, all competing together in disparate events, all with national pride on the line, and with a four year deadline for the 'show'. The relationships, of course, would be a big part of the idea, to further amp up the drama that the competition provides. Language barrier mishaps, tall-dark-hansomes, different dating customs, distant parents, coaches yelling, slipping out at night to abscond with a new relationship, national pride, crossing national barriers in friendship, creating new rivalries, the pressure cooker, etc. And then, at the end, the actual events and the epilogue that is a gold-medal ceremony after four years of hype.

And all of it being done with the IOC getting a cut, possibly making even more cash so they go along with it.

I think it would be great TV.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why they didn't just delay it for 4 years and push the rest back effectively missing 1 games.

What about the athletes who have been training for the event? Some of them won’t get a chance to participate in 4 years time.

That's a fair point, but they might just be put of luck. They'll have to live with world championships and similar. You can't exactly run a project at a multi billion dollar loss just because you want to be fair to a small number of people sadly.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When infection rates spiked, did Korean people reduce the time they spend maskless in public indoor spaces? Are Korean people more likely to wear a mask in public when they're feeling sick?

> When infection rates spiked, did Korean people reduce the time they spend maskless in public indoor spaces? I’d say “yes but not quite to degree people seem to expect”. First, I don’t have direct evidence as I stopped working from an office a while back, but I believe that within office spaces—which fall under semi-public indoor spaces I suppose—being maskless outside smoking areas is not tolerated. Second, I belie…

Everything you've written here is consistent with what I'm seeing out of Japan (not terribly surprising, but it's good to see confirmation that I'm not getting a biased sample).

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#175
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics. I lived in Japan, have many friends there whom I keep in touch with, and watch the local news regularly. The restrictions in the major cities have been substantially fewer than we've had here in the US. There have been…

Conversely to the US they've had pretty strict quarantine rules and since January completely blocked all immigration. However some have said their domestic travel campaign may have been worse for the virus than a few legal immigrants who had to quarantine and be tested before and after landing.

Absolutely.

Again, veering into speculation: I think we're going to find out that the #1 most important thing any country did was to close the borders fast and hard before case counts became so large as to be unmanageable. Everything else is just nibbling around the edges of the problem.

Of course, you have to ask yourself if the US ever could have done anything like that. There's pretty decent evidence that the virus was circulating silently in the US in late 2019. Even if we closed the borders on January 1, 2020, it was probably already too late. It's a lot easier to get ahead of that game when you aren't one of the world's leading international travel destinations.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#176
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can just combine the daily data and extrapolate the results across any time frame you have data points for? Are you suggesting that the media is to blame for something?

It was you who pointed at the day-to-day discrepancies and asked "what's the point then". The point is to have a metric that you can work with in realistic timeframes, e.g. every week or every other week. The day-to-day discrepancy is not a big deal, unless you work in the media and you have to push a daily bulletin to ensure "engagement".

I think there is a problem with the method though, if you’re selectively testing and changing the number of tests per day, then you’re going to have trouble establishing a useful positivity rate, or am I wrong? There should be some consistency.

If the results presented are hourly, daily or weekly, that’s just the resolution of said metric.

Maybe you’re arguing there isn’t much point in having higher resolution metrics than weekly but I don’t see how taking more frequent measurements matter, it doesn’t change the outcomes.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the athletes who have been training for the event? Some of them won’t get a chance to participate in 4 years time.

That's a fair point, but they might just be put of luck. They'll have to live with world championships and similar. You can't exactly run a project at a multi billion dollar loss just because you want to be fair to a small number of people sadly.

> You can’t exactly run a project at a multi billion dollar loss

What is the cost of running the games though?

I assume (with absolutely no evidence) that the costs would be heavily skewed towards facilities setup and infrastructure. That’s a sunk fixed cost.

I’m sure there is a large security and labor cost when the games are going on. I assume this would be a variable cost that would be reduced without spectators.

If the majority of the cost has already been spent and it’s a relatively small (perhaps less than a few hundred million dollars) cost to conduct the games, why not go through with it? Maybe running a limited games could be a compromise?

I suppose all of the Tokyo 2020 merchandise is already written off and useless.

I acknowledge the whole calculus changes with public health and the pandemic. I’m addressing money as the issue.

Anyways I’m a huge fan of all Olympic events, and the Olympics is the only sporting event(s) I watch. I look forward to them when they come, so I’ll definitely be sad if it was all cancelled, and I’m definitely biased.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#178
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want investment. They aren't facing a shortage of any specific currency. As i mentioned, if their shortage was currency specific, they have access to capital and forex markets. I will repeat. The Japanese don't have any specific need for dollars that they can't fulfill on a balance of payments basis. Some countries do. But Japan doesn't.

You don't seem to understand the difference between earning dollars and exchanging currency. I'm not claiming they face a "shortage of a specific currency". I'm saying they want to earn money from foreign customers, not exchange currency with them, and that (nationally) they would prefer earning money from foreign customers to earning it from each other. Earning money from foreign customers gives the Japanese as a na…

Are you potentially confusing the concept of "dollars" with the concept of "money". While there are multiple currencies named "dollars" the term "dollars" is not generally interchangeable with the word "money".

Under your scheme, if a Polish person exchanges Euros for Yen in Japan and then buys a beer in Tokyo, did Japan just "earn dollars"? Because I think it's pretty clear that nothing referred to as a "dollar" moved hands here.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#179
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever Tokyo is doing to keep COVID under control with such a crazy high population density, it looks like we've got an entire state over here in the U.S. that could still learn some of the basics. I lived in Japan, have many friends there whom I keep in touch with, and watch the local news regularly. The restrictions in the major cities have been substantially fewer than we've had here in the US. There have been…

> Nearly all have remained open Most places have followed the suggestions. For the last 2 months nearly every bar and restaurant has closed by 8pm. While being open at all might seem like a problem subtracting 2 to 8 hrs off opening time, especially 2hrs of the busiest times in Japan at least, reduces the number of people exposed reducing the R number. I live in Shibuya (one of the more busy places in Tokyo). I can w…

I'm pretty sure that the fact that Japan shut down international tourist (Even from Schengen Area and other countries with an exemption of Visa) helped their case.

In Canada, we didn't had a lot of policies against air travelers until last month.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#180
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When infection rates spiked, did Korean people reduce the time they spend maskless in public indoor spaces? I’d say “yes but not quite to degree people seem to expect”. First, I don’t have direct evidence as I stopped working from an office a while back, but I believe that within office spaces—which fall under semi-public indoor spaces I suppose—being maskless outside smoking areas is not tolerated. Second, I belie…

Everything you've written here is consistent with what I'm seeing out of Japan (not terribly surprising, but it's good to see confirmation that I'm not getting a biased sample).

Based on your replies, my own experience living in Japan, conversations with Korean people, and conversations with my sister who is living in Korea, I believe the the reduced spread of the virus in Japan & Korea compared to western countries is because of many behavior differences of Japanese & Korean people. For example:

1. In USA, few restaurant workers have job security. If they take sick leave, they lose their jobs. So when they get sick, they go in to work and spread it. In Japan & Korea, most restaurant workers can stay home when sick.

2. In USA, most people don't have the idea of staying home from social events when sick. When they have a cold, they will take medicine to suppress symptoms while they visit family & friends, go to church, etc. This happens much less in Japan & Korea.

3. In USA, before the pandemic, nobody wore a mask while socializing when sick. Even now, it is rare in many parts of the country. In Japan & Korea, wearing a mask when sick in public is expected, like wearing clothing over your underwear. So a Japanese or Korean person who feels a little under the weather will opt to keep their mask on when attending a maskless gathering, but an American in the same situation will likely take theirs off.

4. Smoking was banned in restaurants & bars in Korea in 2015 and Japan in 2020. So most restaurants in those countries still have powerful ventilation systems designed to handle cigarette smoke. They can turn them up to reduce Covid transmission risk. In USA, most places banned smoking in restaurants & bars about 10-20 years ago. Since that time, many restaurant ventilation systems have been replaced or reconfigured to reduce the air exchange rate.

These and other differences add up to a large reduction in virus spread.

I have heard many Americans write essentially, "People are maskless in restaurants in Japan and Korea and there's no spike, so we can do it in my country too and not get a spike." I think this conclusion is incorrect. It is based on incomplete knowledge of the differences between their country and Japan & Korea.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_Un...

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