Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 208 posts

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#161

Post by bloqs »

alias_neo wrote: post #36
retSava wrote: post #2

Hopefully such things bring forced availability of rare spare parts. If cookie cutter capacitors break, that's nothing really since you can just order them on Mouser et al. But if a more special part breaks, say a custom voltage regulator to a game console (just since I saw a video on that fail yesterday), I would like for a repair center to be able to buy one such for a reasonable price and have the 500$ console rep…

My ~£300 Tannoy powered subwoofer for my home theatre failed recently. They refused to honour the 10 year warranty because my proof of purchase wasn't in the right format or some such. Surely proof is proof? I paid the same money as everyone else. Well, luckily for me, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering, so a week or so of reverse engineering and a few hundred £s in test equipment later I replaced the 20p Scho…

I can't verify this, other than via the stories specifics make it sound believable, and I've had similar experiences elsewhere. I too will never buy a tannoy product again.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#162

Post by Varriount »

penguin_booze wrote: post #157

I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new on…

I have to wonder - was repairing (rather than replacing) appliances cheaper in the past? If so, is there a clear cause on why repair prices have changed?

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#163

Post by tpmx »

Varriount wrote: post #162
penguin_booze wrote: post #157

I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new on…

I have to wonder - was repairing (rather than replacing) appliances cheaper in the past? If so, is there a clear cause on why repair prices have changed?

Appliances are comparatively cheaper now because production has been moved to low-wage countries. And also because of productivity increases from automation.

It's harder to move the repair to low-wage countries or to automate it.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#164

Post by aembleton »

Hani1337 wrote: post #58

No one's gonna mention they're literally just copying the EU law that was passed last week?

It's the third sentence from the article: "They are keeping a promise to implement EU rules aimed at cutting energy and bills – and reducing the need for new materials."

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#165

Post by Cosmin_C »

Varriount wrote: post #162
penguin_booze wrote: post #157

I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new on…

I have to wonder - was repairing (rather than replacing) appliances cheaper in the past? If so, is there a clear cause on why repair prices have changed?

Not necessarily cheaper but much easier. Plus, it was convenient as new appliances were quite a lot more expensive (and may I add much more durable).

Nowadays trying to repair an appliance you run into all sorts of issues like missing schematics (and it's much harder to make out what does what on a logic board of a washing machine for example), low parts availability + serialized parts + firmware locks (this is mostly Apple though).

My issue is that new stuff doesn't really seem to be made to last. My last washing machine lasted exactly warranty + 7 days. Meanwhile, mum still has a washing machine close to 30 years old which still works great (with some repairs every few years with super cheap parts). And nowadays it's mostly plastic with a dash of metal instead of the other way around (unless you like moving the washing machine every week the "but it's lighter" argument is moot)

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#166

Post by oliwarner »

penguin_booze wrote: post #157

I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new on…

But if you can do it yourself, the economics change dramatically.

I'm not sure what the proposed law changes in this respect. I've fixed boilers, phones, computers, TVs, dishwashers and washing machines to varying degrees without call-out costs. Part availability has never really been an issue.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#167

Post by oliwarner »

Varriount wrote: post #162
penguin_booze wrote: post #157

I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new on…

I have to wonder - was repairing (rather than replacing) appliances cheaper in the past? If so, is there a clear cause on why repair prices have changed?

Significantly. A 1952 washing machine cost $300 back then. That had the buying power of about $3k now.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#168

Post by simion314 »

zepto wrote: post #148
simion314 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I do not understand your point, nobody is forced to buy a phone or car each year, the difference is that I can change the lights on my car with an "unofficial" part if I want without Ford complaining that I am a pirate and trying to void my engine warranty. I have all the possible options with my car: - go to a Ford shop and have them do it for me - go to a reputable website and browse all compatible parts and…

We aren’t talking about cars. As I said earlier, they aren’t a valid comparison. Computers and cars are quite different in their components, and life cycle.

I disagree. But let me know how do you define the line where this electronics should be repairable and the other ones should be DRM locked.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#169

Post by helloguillecl »

I think many of us are ignoring the environmental impact and hassle derived from the act of having to buy new instead of repairing:

- Found out what happened in the first place.

- Looking for a new model you like since the one you already had and liked doesn't exist anymore. Price compare. Get it delivered and possibly wait a few days.

- Possibly the appliance must be installed by a technician. Arrange an appointment for that.

- Set up the machine and get everyone to learn how to use the appliance.

- Find out that some things don't work as they used to.

- Dispose the plastics, papers from the packaging.

- Scan the new manual for your records.

- Dispose the old appliance in a proper way (electronic trash must be disposed in other facilities than the packaging)

- Repeat.

This is about giving the possibility of repairs. The consumer is to decide what is economically posible, but I think a lot of possibilities might open up, like remote-assisted repairs and tutorials.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#170

Post by luxuryballs »

abainbridge wrote: post #89
luxuryballs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of stuff is how government “incentives” end up essentially banning devices with such fancy parts because the companies will realize complying would be taking a loss so they just stop participating.

I think the EU regs have tried to avoid that by specifying the requirements of spares availability case by case. For example, the requirements for washing machines are in C(2019) 2124, annex II. It says: manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives of household washing machines and household washer-dryers shall make available to professional repairers at least the following spare parts, for a minimum period…

Thanks for sharing this, though I think it’s probably even worse because now they get to essentially play favorites with their regulations which is a major breeding ground for corruption.
Post reply on HN