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UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

bbc.co.uk

151–160 of 208 posts

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#151
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What absurdity? By this logic we wouldn't repair cars either 'to reduce waste'

Cars and computers are quite different in terms of their components and life-cycles.

Pleaae demonstrate at least one occasion where making a device repairable increased waste

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#152
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a fridge doesn't need software? I don't hear consumers clamouring for it.

But fridges do have software. There’s code in there monitoring and regulating the compressor, monitoring temperatures and making decisions. Thankfully these problems are so simple companies rarely fuckup the software. But it does happen, and then hardware is run slightly out of spec resulting in failures. Have the right to replace the software would be amazing. It would give people the ability to replace slightly bro…

You can easily achieve this with a thermostat wired to the compressor. Its fully hardware based, analog and is perfectly capable of maintaining a specified temp range. This is how it was done for decades and it worked fine.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#153
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should my right of ownership be violated to help apple deal with 'stolen' parts? It isn’t. Apple’s products are designed to help consumers avoid the problems associated with stolen parts, including the very real threat of supply chain attacks. You always have the right not to choose that design. You seem to want to prevent other people from choosing it, which seems odd to me.

"very real threat of supply chain attacks" Every year millions of devices are thown away because of this. How many phones suffered from supply chain attack last year? Probably zero. Apple products are designed to subvert the concept of ownership. They retain control even after i paid for the item. We live in a world where all of my equipment could be switched off if one of their servers goes down, you are legally for…

> Apple products are deaigned to subvert the concept of ownership.

No, they are designed for ease of use. Modern smartphones are way beyond the scope of most individuals to manage. Apple provides an increasingly managed service, which people choose because it is what they want.

> They retain control even after i paid for the item.

Yes, consumers want software updates, and they expect to be secured.

> We live in a world where all of my equipment could be switched off if one of their servers goes down,

It’s likely false to say ‘one of their servers’, but yes, just like any service you choose, you are dependent on the service provider to maintain it. It is in their interests not to disappoint you.

> you are legally forvidden from repairing it and people like you giht to defend these practices - you couldn't make it up!

You couldn’t make it up because it is completely untrue. There is nothing legally preventing anyone from repairing an iPhone.

> You are fighting to became a peasant without any rights.

Weird rhetoric.

> Other manufacturers are already following suit, and there wont be any choice left.

There will be no choice left if people are not aware of the choice, and if the choice is not a good one.

You haven’t mentioned an alternative manufacturers. Why not? If you want people to have choice, why not discuss the options. Apple is not the only choice.

You also haven’t mentioned the downsides of choosing those alternatives.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#154
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars and computers are quite different in terms of their components and life-cycles.

Pleaae demonstrate at least one occasion where making a device repairable increased waste

Android phones are much more repairable e.g. with replaceable batteries and non-drm parts.

Despite this, they have have less than half the useful lifetime of an iPhone, and so generate much more waste.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#155
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what about the right to replace/repair the L1 cache? Are you suggesting the right to repair should include this?

Kind of. I mean, sure, I think it would be really neat to be able to replace the L1 cache myself, but this would probably necessitate a less efficient CPU. Is it fair to fault Apple for using an Intel CPU which itself has no mechanism for internal repair/replaceability? I think it is if we were able to apply the same standard to every product (this is where the VAT idea came from); then the repairability becomes the…

> The answer in my mind is one of convention. Perhaps the solution to this is to enshrine the Von Neumann architecture as a legal standard. But this solution seems like it could limit innovation.

Right - I think this is the issue. People cite cars as an example, but car architecture evolves much more slowly than computer architecture.

Arguably at the present, as we come up against Moore’s law limitations, architectural changes should be expected to increase.

Government mandated computer architecture sounds like a great way to completely cede technological advance.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#156
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3rd world crap > Bangalore Shows how much you know if you walked into India expecting “3rd world” internet.

On the contrary this is a praise of how good Internet in India actually is.

It is praise, but it’s also obvious to anyone who knows anything about India. This person knew nothing, was my point. And yet they talk so much about related subjects.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#157
I had to get a couple of appliances repaired recently. The handy man charges a minimum of 50 GBP per hour. Established and organized business charge upwards of 100 as a call-out charge alone (parts extra). If it's a non-trivial electronic repair, the spare would cost 150+ (and they're allowed to mark up prices as they please). Now add all that up, and a sweet 20% VAT on top, and voila, that's nearly how much a new one costs, plus it comes with n years of warranty; even better, I get the opportunity buy extended warranty. What I didn't mention is the waiting time for someone to visit in the first place.

Essentially, it's economical and sensible to get at most one repair on an appliance done. If it's an appliance on which you depend daily, you might not be in a position to wait to get it repaired.

Solution: get a new one. Nearly same cost; no wait; new features. Plus, they'll also take away your old one, and may even give you a discount.

Summary: I'm skeptical this changes anything.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#158
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleaae demonstrate at least one occasion where making a device repairable increased waste

Android phones are much more repairable e.g. with replaceable batteries and non-drm parts. Despite this, they have have less than half the useful lifetime of an iPhone, and so generate much more waste.

They may have a lower useful lifetime, but that is completely unrelated to their repairability.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#159
post #158
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android phones are much more repairable e.g. with replaceable batteries and non-drm parts. Despite this, they have have less than half the useful lifetime of an iPhone, and so generate much more waste.

They may have a lower useful lifetime, but that is completely unrelated to their repairability.

This is false.

iPhones are built to last longer by being more physically integrated, and the trade off is that they are less repairable.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#160
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should my right of ownership be violated to help apple deal with 'stolen' parts? It isn’t. Apple’s products are designed to help consumers avoid the problems associated with stolen parts, including the very real threat of supply chain attacks. You always have the right not to choose that design. You seem to want to prevent other people from choosing it, which seems odd to me.

"very real threat of supply chain attacks" Every year millions of devices are thown away because of this. How many phones suffered from supply chain attack last year? Probably zero. Apple products are designed to subvert the concept of ownership. They retain control even after i paid for the item. We live in a world where all of my equipment could be switched off if one of their servers goes down, you are legally for…

I note that you have changed your comment.

> Every year millions of devices are thown away because of this.

There is no evidence of that. iPhones are not thrown away. They are recycled.

> How many phones suffered from supply chain attack last year? Probably zero.

Given the obvious rise in cyberattacks at all levels of sophistication this seems like a very weird comment to make.

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