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Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

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Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#111

Post by reasonabl_human »

nineplay wrote: post #78
bboylen wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like people often regret not taking the risk to go work (hard) on something they find meaningful. Not sure if as many regret that they didn't put in the extra hours to get to the next level in a big corporation.

I think there are people who do regret not getting to the next big level. They thought they could have been a good (software) architect or director or principal, they thought they could have really made some lasting difference, but instead they were a cog their whole lives. Success is important, feeling successful is important. It can be hard to be happy with "good enough".

Good reading on the topic of doing great work and fulfilling that potential you reference:

http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html

Just read it for the first time yesterday and plan on doing so many more times in the future.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#112

Post by DiggyJohnson »

jedberg wrote: post #85
notriddle wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a millionaire to make friends.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

I hope this isn't too low effort of a comment, I ask sincerely:

Do you really mean that? Do you find that those who achieve are the most likely to have "a lot more time" to focus on their interpersonal relationships?

Beyond a modest income, my experiences do not line up. This is almost the same reason that I believe the 20th century conception of retirement is a bit silly.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#113

Post by scotty79 »

mongo_lover wrote: post #73

As someone that has had one or two "deathbed" experiences, I can say two things struck me about them 1) I felt complete peace about dying. In fact, I had to reason myself towards wanting to live 2) I felt a level of clarity about what was important to me that I have never felt before (or since). I struggle to incorporate that into my life on an ongoing basis. I think these experiences were a terrible gift. I would wi…

When I wonder about my own death I'm always unsure whether I'll be afraid and sad about the fact that I won't see the future or just be so tired with how I feel that I'll just want to be done with it as soon as possible.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#114

Post by arrrg »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #67
pwinnski wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very curious about your assumption that dying people have low incentive to lie. How do you figure? It seems as if nearing the moment of death might make people desperate to represent themselves as better people, more noble than their lived experiences might have shown them to be. I certainly have ideals to which I fail to live up, and while dying I might express those ideal to those around me, since observing my…

For example, a dying person may say: "I regret every day I spent at work; the career was absolutely not worth it; I wish I would have spent more time with my friends and family" without being worried about potential impact on their future employment. Dying can give you the ultimate form of freedom of speech, when you are also free from the consequences. I agree that a person who cares about how they will be remembere…

That seems to be highly dependent on your own psychological state and disposition …

To me it seems just as plausible that you don’t really want to think of all the bad times, all the bad decisions you made. Your hypothesis requires a certain point of view that a dying person doesn’t necessarily have.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#115

Post by DiggyJohnson »

mongo_lover wrote: post #73

As someone that has had one or two "deathbed" experiences, I can say two things struck me about them 1) I felt complete peace about dying. In fact, I had to reason myself towards wanting to live 2) I felt a level of clarity about what was important to me that I have never felt before (or since). I struggle to incorporate that into my life on an ongoing basis. I think these experiences were a terrible gift. I would wi…

Is is worth your time do describe that feeling of clarity? Have you ever been able to (re)capture it, even for a moment?

Is this a silly question? That's an interesting datum in itself.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#116

Post by ant6n »

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

> My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constraints of life placed upon us by social pressures and resource acquisition, we have an easier time realizing what is actually important.

The most important thing in life today is riding around town in a yellow double decker bus. Tomorrow the most important thing in life is watching Peppa. The day after it’s chocolate.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#117

Post by TeMPOraL »

coldtea wrote: post #4

For a: - "I should have done X" (regret because X wasn't followed) there are probably as many: - "I should not have done X" (regret because X was followed and made things shit) Even the "should not have worked as hard" would be most likely balanced with others saying: "should not have been as slack or loose at work, and did something important, made some legacy" In the end, nothing really matters, and the perspective…

I have a lighter version of this: on your deathbed you'll regret the roads not taken.

If you spend your life as a family person, you might regret not making an impact on the community/the world. If you spend your life chasing impact, you might regret not enjoying family life. If you spend your life chasing money, you might regret either. Etc.

Either way, you'll regret something, so it's not a good source of insights for those who are still alive.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#119

Post by notriddle »

jedberg wrote: post #85
notriddle wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a millionaire to make friends.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

A million is quite a bit higher than you need for that: https://money.com/ideal-income-study/

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#120

Post by taxicabjesus »

jbroson wrote: post #109
taxicabjesus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about. Doesn't seem poignant, I think this is sad. In a previous comment I said, "In America we have an odd relationship with the inevitable. Sometimes people get a terminal diagnosis, and sometimes they fight it. ..." [0] Fighting the inevitable is not a noble way to go. Sometimes people can forestall their passing for a few weeks, months or years, but the reaper com…

Yeah, this seems nice to say but much harder to actually do. As someone who has been quite close to death and recovered, I can say with 100% certainty you truly have no idea what that bone-chilling terror is to know that you could well and truly die soon and there's nothing you can do about it. The unknown is one of the most terrifying things known to mankind. Death is the ultimate unknown. Why else would so many rel…

You made an account (or a throwaway) just to reply to my comment. I think that's interesting... I've gotten a few other replies, which means that this thread is something people care about.

I knocked myself out, nearly drowned, and don't remember 2 weeks. Phased back in over the course of about 6 months. I thought that was basically like being dead, but I've since reconsidered.

Modern Americans don't deal well with death, maybe because we're led to think it's avoidable. I've been watching some movies of the civil war period recently. There were lots of casualties, much more so than previous wars. WWI and WWII and Vietnam were bloodbaths too (more for the Vietnamese civilians than the US soldiers).

The japanese gave their kamakazi pilots meth to help them feel immortal -- soldiers might have survived the skirmish, but being a kamikazi was a death sentence. The japanese were more ... cavalier about dying, which I think helped them to be more efficient fighters.

Pre-modern Americans must have been more realistic about dying. I think it'd be easier to make smart political decisions with the assumption that we're all going to die eventually, than with the assumption that death is optional.

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