1) it's not a right
2) it's yet another tax on all those who prefer cheaper products that aren't DIY serviceable
UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
131–140 of 208 posts
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Making things 'more repairable' can increase cost and resources needed. I don't think this is in dispute, is it? The point is that manufacturers must now consider this cost in their calculations, rather than pass all the consequences on to the consumer without caring. > People do not necessarily want to repair a broken old device If the old device still has value, then both can happen - I can get a new device, and…
> The point is that manufacturers must now consider this cost in their calculations, rather than pass all the consequences on to the consumer without caring. If this was the goal, then simply taxing fossil fuels and other polluting sources would be the ideal and simple solution. How high would the taxes need to be? However high it takes to get pollution levels down to where they need to be. The actual cost of a new i…
I'm a bit lost. I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion at all.
Manufacturers already pay $ proportional to the amount of fossil fuels spent, and this doesn't cause them to consider future consequences on the consumer. They still think vendor lock-in and planned obsolescence are to their advantage.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But what about the right to replace/repair the L1 cache? Are you suggesting the right to repair should include this?
Kind of. I mean, sure, I think it would be really neat to be able to replace the L1 cache myself, but this would probably necessitate a less efficient CPU. Is it fair to fault Apple for using an Intel CPU which itself has no mechanism for internal repair/replaceability? I think it is if we were able to apply the same standard to every product (this is where the VAT idea came from); then the repairability becomes the…
What about smaller components? If we follow this to the logical conclusion we cannot use integrated circuits at all, as each individual transistor must be replaceable.
The rules needs to be written in a way that allow things, like integrated circuits, to exist but at the same time prevent intentional preventing of repairability.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
But fridges do have software. There’s code in there monitoring and regulating the compressor, monitoring temperatures and making decisions. Thankfully these problems are so simple companies rarely fuckup the software. But it does happen, and then hardware is run slightly out of spec resulting in failures. Have the right to replace the software would be amazing. It would give people the ability to replace slightly bro…
Oh please. I'm sorry, air compressor regulation does not require software. Compressor units have been working for decades without software. If the current industry is anything to go on, the reliance on software for compressor regulation has reduced, not increased, reliability. Older fridges would last 20-30 years. Last year I threw out a fridge that was a free hand-me-down. The gasket was so old that the door would n…
Software control enables far more efficiency.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe a fridge doesn't need software? I don't hear consumers clamouring for it.
But fridges do have software. There’s code in there monitoring and regulating the compressor, monitoring temperatures and making decisions. Thankfully these problems are so simple companies rarely fuckup the software. But it does happen, and then hardware is run slightly out of spec resulting in failures. Have the right to replace the software would be amazing. It would give people the ability to replace slightly bro…
I dont see any utility at all in "ability to change its temperature on a schedule". What you want in fridge is constant reliable temperature.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why should Apple decide what part I put in the phone? If the phone is out of warranty then I should be able to use batteries, screens, chargers or software that is not blessed by Apple's grace. For a lot of people, this is a feature, not a bug. It prevents repair shops using substandard components, or even replacing good components with cheaper ones and then re-selling them. Edit: another much more serious issue, i…
That is also the risk with computers and cars, there might be "a lot" of people that would like DRM cars and computers but there are a lot more lots of people that would like to repair the car then buy a new one each year, or even the rich guys that buy a new car yearly they would like to be able to sell the old car and you can't sell an old car if it does not run because it needs a new memory stick in the main compu…
> there might be "a lot" of people that would like DRM cars and computers but there are a lot more lots of people that would like to repair the car then buy a new one each year,
This isn’t a valid comparison - nobody is forced to buy a new car or phone every year.
I strongly doubt you are right about the numbers in general.
Very few people want to risk fraudulent parts.
But, I do agree that at some point the user should be able to unlock the DRM and take their own risks.
E.g. at the end of the manufacturers support of the software.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple should be forced to publicly sell this part for a reasonable price for x years. This means generating a vast amount of e-waste and increasing the cost of units. Since Apple doesn’t make the components themselves, they would have to warehouse a supply of spares.
What absurdity? By this logic we wouldn't repair cars either 'to reduce waste'
Cars and computers are quite different in terms of their components and life-cycles.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A - A classification system that makes defines how "easy" it is to repair something, but necessarily doesn't mean that you or I can repair it at home.It will be "easy" IF you have the right 50,000 GBP tool. Louis Rossmann did a video tearing apart France's recent implementation of this from the perspective of an Apple repair technician. Despite serialized parts, soldered/glued components, and no available schematic…
I think this pretty well sums up the loophole. You have the right to repair... what? If I buy a macbook, do I get to replace the case? keyboard? These seem pretty reasonable. But what about the right to replace/repair the L1 cache? This is obviously a different story - it would be nice, but the part probably isn't manufactured by Apple (maybe it is on the new Silicon?). My point is that at some point, things start to…
Nevermind the M1 - what about an Apple watch? I'm wildly out of my depth with this but I look at stuff like this teardown and X-ray of the Apple watch where they describe the distance between components in microns and think that maybe that's reasonably difficult to repair that component.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+Watch+X-ray+Teardown/4...
That being said, I would like it if the screen/battery/soc could be replaced independently.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because a source of parts is devices that are stolen and stripped for the parts. The parts are then laundered so you think your source is legal. By putting a serial number on each part it means you go after the supplier who you otherwise thought was honest and so this whole scheme shuts down.
I understand the issue with the stolen parts, cars also can have similar issues and we still can buy after market parts. I wonder if we can confirm this theory that is also financial extremely favorable to Apple or is just FUD and PR.
Most car parts are not coded. However some of the important ones are, and that enough enough to slow down the steal car for parts scheme.
Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this pretty well sums up the loophole. You have the right to repair... what? If I buy a macbook, do I get to replace the case? keyboard? These seem pretty reasonable. But what about the right to replace/repair the L1 cache? This is obviously a different story - it would be nice, but the part probably isn't manufactured by Apple (maybe it is on the new Silicon?). My point is that at some point, things start to…
"You have the right to repair... what?" - the key expectation is that the parts that wear out within 10 years or are commonly breakable (e.g. screens) should be replaceable. By this criteria, batteries and keyboards apply, but random solid state parts on boards and L1 cache does not.
I agree 100%, but have these sorts of guidelines been included in the right to repair bills that have been making the rounds here in the US?
They should be pretty common sense parts, but I'm not sure how they're actually determining these things in the bills which are being proposed. Do you have any more insight into what's being proposed?
I know there are some 15 states who've introduced legislation, but back in 2018, it was just hearings taking place. I haven't heard or seen any updates since then.