YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#171

Post by gruez » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #167

tristanj wrote: post #85

This RT article is clickbait and spreading misinformation. The tax is on revenue generated from users in the US, not on all revenue. If creators provide no tax information at all, only then will YouTube tax all global revenue. And YouTube is not doing so by choice, they're a US headquartered company and forced to do this to comply with US tax law. RT is highlighting tweets that are spreading misinformation. For examp…

> No, it's US sourced income, therefore the US government can levy taxes on it. Is it more accurate to say US sourced net income? It's amazing how massive companies can put their HQ in a tax haven and avoid US taxes completely while small creators are going to have withholdings from their revenue (ie: max taxes with zero expenses until they file a return to show net income, right?). It's a terrible deal for Canadians…

>Is it more accurate to say US sourced net income? It's amazing how massive companies can put their HQ in a tax haven and avoid US taxes completely while small creators are going to have withholdings from their revenue.

that's because corporations get taxed on profit, and individuals get taxed on income. profits can be rerouted to more tax-favorable jurisdictions, but it's much harder to pull off with personal income.

>It's a terrible deal for Canadians who will be paying US taxes without living in the US. Will they be eligible for US social programs, etc.? Why should the first 15% (IIRC) of income taxes from YouTubers go to the US? That's BS.

In the case of canada (and other countries with a tax treaty with the US), this is a non-issue because you either pay 0% withholding or can deduct the tax from your country's tax return (presumably the tax treaty also contains provisions for your country to net out the difference with the US).

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#172

Post by ctroein89 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #149

tristanj wrote: post #85

This RT article is clickbait and spreading misinformation. The tax is on revenue generated from users in the US, not on all revenue. If creators provide no tax information at all, only then will YouTube tax all global revenue. And YouTube is not doing so by choice, they're a US headquartered company and forced to do this to comply with US tax law. RT is highlighting tweets that are spreading misinformation. For examp…

It's arguably not US sourced income by virtue of US viewers though. If US people visit the UK, our shops don't charge and pay sales tax in the US. Really it should be about where the server is I suppose, regardless of whether the viewer is American or not. The internet is interesting and messy and laws & regulation are far from caught up.

The better analogy here is that if a German band plays a concert in the UK, they still need to pay UK taxes on their ticket sales. Even if the band is incorporated in Germany, the portion of the tour that occurred in the UK is still subject to UK taxes.

Additionally, most European countries permit duty-free sales to foreign citizens in normal stores under the right conditions (often via requiring a passport to be shown at purchase, and via refunding the taxes at airport when leaving the country). This arrangement works because, it's generally required that travelers pay customs on arrival to their home countries on goods purchased abroad anyway. That being said, I've just learnt that the UK has killed their duty-free sales system as of 2021 [1], which is just stupid.

[1] https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/uk-to-axe-duty-free-...

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#173

Post by zepearl » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

sharpneli wrote: post #163

sandworm101 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxa... "C. Which Form to File: Nonresident aliens who are required to file an income tax return must use Form 1040-NR, U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return" https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1040-nr NOT YOUR LAWYER. Just providing links to a government website that explains what that government requires of people who earn US income.

Thank you. So it indeed is doable, just holy moly the forms. Things like "Add lines 25a through 25c". Don't they have computers? Are the forms for Citizens like this too?

I guess that somebody will have to check all submissions => depending on the amount of people that earn $ through Youtube, the amount of work might increase quite a bit for the IRS?

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#174

Post by Macha » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

jgowdy wrote: post #125

Macha wrote: post #26

So for investments in the US I know there is a double taxation treaty. For both degiro (EU based) and fidelity (US based), I had to follow the W-8 process which basically boils to "I am a citizen of eligible country X, here is my government ID number, I've ticked this box which asserts this to be a factual claim and understand that it's legally fraud if not true, and I can provide documentation to this effect if the…

How is this not exactly the same as the EU putting targeted taxes on major US technology companies to stop money from leaving their market?

These companies have offices and employees in Europe - it's hard to argue that they are not substantially doing business in Europe when they have employees, facilities and customers in Europe.

Compare that to some mid sized retailer located in one country who adds international shipping as an option

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#175

Post by kube-system » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

melomal wrote: post #148

D13Fd wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. You incorporate in Delaware not because it's a tax haven, but because they have the most developed corporate law of any state, and the chancellor/vice chancellors on the Delaware Court of Chancery are without a doubt among the best judges on corporate issues that you will find anywhere in the world.

> most developed corporate law of any state Honestly this just sounds like the old Swiss tax rules of 'we never disclose your details, even to the feds'.

No, it's nothing like that. Businesses like Delaware because they can easily hire lawyers that know Delaware law, and those lawyers can say with a good degree of certainty that the law means X or Y, because many businesses before them have already settled the case law there.

This is not the case for every state. In some states, your specific business legal concern might be something that is not clearly outlined under the text of the law, and there may be a complete lack of case law to guide your lawyer.

TL;DR: lawyers in Delaware are more likely to answer "yes" or "no" rather than "maybe" to your business law question.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#176

Post by nromiun » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

Alright, so America wants to tax every American view in YouTube. But what happens if another country decides to do the same thing? Creators will have to pay every country their views come from. I hope I am wrong, but we all know every country in the world is greedy for more tax.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#177

Post by donmcronald » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

jgowdy wrote: post #126

BitwiseFool wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose a non-citizen subject to this tax would have to appeal to their own government and raise the issue diplomatically. But I doubt most nations would be in a position to change the United State's behavior in this regard. Maybe the EU has enough clout to contest this in a court of international law. But that also depends on them wanting to raise the issue in the first place.

The EU is literally in the process of putting the same kind of taxes on technology companies. And people are cheering for it. The US does the same in reverse, everyone loses their minds...

I don't think it's the same. Huge corporations already shift their profits around to avoid taxes. This is only going to affect small businesses and independent creators that can't take advantage of the same corporate structure as a huge tech company.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#178

Post by kube-system » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

LinuxBender wrote: post #158

gruez wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you getting taxed multiple times? I'm not sure how it applies to unemployment income.

That money comes from tax revenue. You already paid taxes on your income once. Now you are getting taxed on it again when it recycles back to you. You will also get taxed on it again when you spend it. There is a flow chart somewhere that shows the myriad of ways the same money is repeatedly taxed.

Yes, this is exactly what it means to have income and consumption taxes. If you buy an ice cream for $1, that is $1 of consumption and $1 of income.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#179

Post by gruez » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

LinuxBender wrote: post #158

gruez wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you getting taxed multiple times? I'm not sure how it applies to unemployment income.

That money comes from tax revenue. You already paid taxes on your income once. Now you are getting taxed on it again when it recycles back to you. You will also get taxed on it again when you spend it. There is a flow chart somewhere that shows the myriad of ways the same money is repeatedly taxed.

>That money comes from tax revenue.

Technically it comes from unemployment insurance premiums. Wikipedia says: In the United States, benefits are funded by a compulsory governmental insurance system, not taxes on individual citizens.

It's easy to imagine some sort of alternate reality where the unemployment insurance system is handled by a private company, for instance.

Moreover, calling it double-tax doesn't really make any sense because the tax is on the income, not the dollar itself. Public sector employees aren't getting double-taxed because part of their salary goes to the government, which pays for their paycheck. You're also not taxed infinity-taxed because your paycheck comes from a business which is taxed, which gets its revenue from a consumer which is taxed, which gets their paycheck from a business which is taxed...

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#180

Post by donmcronald » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #171

donmcronald wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's US sourced income, therefore the US government can levy taxes on it. Is it more accurate to say US sourced net income? It's amazing how massive companies can put their HQ in a tax haven and avoid US taxes completely while small creators are going to have withholdings from their revenue (ie: max taxes with zero expenses until they file a return to show net income, right?). It's a terrible deal for Canadians…

>Is it more accurate to say US sourced net income? It's amazing how massive companies can put their HQ in a tax haven and avoid US taxes completely while small creators are going to have withholdings from their revenue. that's because corporations get taxed on profit, and individuals get taxed on income. profits can be rerouted to more tax-favorable jurisdictions, but it's much harder to pull off with personal income…

> In the case of canada (and other countries with a tax treaty with the US), this is a non-issue because you either pay 0% withholding or can deduct the tax from your country's tax return (presumably the tax treaty also contains provisions for your country to net out the difference with the US).

This is what Intuit says for that type of income:

> If taxes were deducted from your income, you can claim those taxes as if you paid them to the CRA. Because you have a duty to report all your U.S. income on your Canadian return, the income is deemed taxable as Canadian income. The usually lower U.S. income tax rate could leave you with an amount owing for the difference between the United States and Canadian income tax rates.

So, just for the sake of an example, say I make $100, US income taxes are 15%, and Canadian income taxes are 25%. The way I understand it, I pay $15 in US tax. That's calculated as if I paid it to the CRA, so now I only owe them $10 to make up the difference.

The HUGE issue with that is that my country (Canada) only gets $10 for things like healthcare and social programs while the US gets $15 for doing exactly nothing. So it might not make a difference in terms of the money in my bank account, but it's detrimental to me in terms of a lack of funding for government services.