YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#161

Post by grecy » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #6

Is youtube really worth it at this point? You can publish using activity pub now and most youtubers are funded by patreon and paid sponsors anyway.

> Is youtube really worth it at this point?

Since the middle of June 2020 I've been growing my channel, now it has 40k subscribers.

I'm not there yet, but I can easily see a near future where I make more money from YT directly than I ever made as a Software Engineer (NOT FAANG level). So I just film what I love doing (exploring, hiking, tinkering, travel), and that's my career.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#162

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

amscanne wrote: post #151

kevinventullo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stream donations aren’t really a transaction, though. The streamer is under no obligation to even respond to a donor, and certainly there is no employer/employee relationship.

It’s more complicated than that. A donation to a streamer is much more like a “tip” than a gift, and tips are clearly taxable despite not having any obligations associated with them.

From the relevant form: "Wages, salaries, tips, etc. Attach Form(s) W-2"

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#163

Post by sharpneli » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #142

sharpneli wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you even file an US tax return if you don't have any presence in the US? How do they even identify you if you don't have US SSN?

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxa... "C. Which Form to File: Nonresident aliens who are required to file an income tax return must use Form 1040-NR, U.S. Nonresident Alien Income Tax Return" https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1040-nr NOT YOUR LAWYER. Just providing links to a government website that explains what that government requires of people who earn US income.

Thank you. So it indeed is doable, just holy moly the forms.

Things like "Add lines 25a through 25c". Don't they have computers? Are the forms for Citizens like this too?

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#164

Post by gruez » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

devoutsalsa wrote: post #147

ssijak wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My country does not have double taxation treaty with US. So after Google takes its cut, then US with 30% cut, then my country with about 55% cut, plus other expenses it feels like there is no point in starting a youtube channel in 2021.

Can you deduct the US tax paid as a business expense?

It doesn't matter because your revenue is already reduced, so you can't deduct it again. For instance, if you originally earned $1000/month from youtube with zero expenses, for a profit of $1000/month that you have to pay taxes on. With youtube withholding 30%, your new revenue would be $700/month, for a profit of $700/month. You can't take your new revenue of $700/month, deduct the $300 tax as an expense, for a final profit of $400/month.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#165

Post by flyingfences » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #145

xxpor wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As far as I know, there is no other countries in the world with such an insane policy. This is inherent in being the most powerful country in the world. The US has the ability to do it, so why wouldn't they? You're not a US citizen, so the federal government cares even less about abstract fairness than they usually do.

> The US has the ability to do it, so why wouldn't they? Pretty sure being a bully is supposed to be bad. ;)

"Supposed to be", yes, but the bully only cares if the bully can be made to suffer consequences.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#166

Post by JamesBarney » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

martin8412 wrote: post #132

jgowdy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not exactly the same as the EU putting targeted taxes on major US technology companies to stop money from leaving their market? Any time the US does something, the reaction is always strangely different than when other players like the EU do the same thing...

This is literally not even the remotely same thing.. The EU wants to tax companies earning money in the EU.. The US wants to tax people/companies in every other country around the world. The US is one of those few countries with insane tax legislation. As a US citizen, you won't have a good time moving anywhere, because almost nobody wants to deal with US citizens because of the batshit crazy tax laws.

If you're a youtube creator making money off of showing American's ads in America that seems like earning money in America to me.

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#167

Post by donmcronald » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

tristanj wrote: post #85

This RT article is clickbait and spreading misinformation. The tax is on revenue generated from users in the US, not on all revenue. If creators provide no tax information at all, only then will YouTube tax all global revenue. And YouTube is not doing so by choice, they're a US headquartered company and forced to do this to comply with US tax law. RT is highlighting tweets that are spreading misinformation. For examp…

> No, it's US sourced income, therefore the US government can levy taxes on it.

Is it more accurate to say US sourced net income? It's amazing how massive companies can put their HQ in a tax haven and avoid US taxes completely while small creators are going to have withholdings from their revenue (ie: max taxes with zero expenses until they file a return to show net income, right?).

It's a terrible deal for Canadians who will be paying US taxes without living in the US. Will they be eligible for US social programs, etc.? Why should the first 15% (IIRC) of income taxes from YouTubers go to the US? That's BS.

If I were a creator I'd already be looking into setting up two companies. One would create and license content to the second. The second would have the relationship with YouTube and would only make a very small amount of profit. That's not advice. I don't have a clue how it actually works

If it were YouTube on the hook for the taxes, you can be guaranteed there'd already be some corporate structure set up to avoid those taxes. Why can't there be a YouTube Canada that runs at a very thin (almost zero) margin by selling ad space for Canadian YouTube channels to YouTube US and paying out Canadian YouTubers with the revenue?

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#168

Post by tekromancr » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

realmod wrote: post #90

totalZero wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a pretty effective deterrent against foreign governments attempting to collect tax revenue on views from within their own jurisdiction. Not sure that anyone will do so, but I think this is what GP is saying.

At the same time, giving up a market will give another competitor a golden oppurtunity which could come to bite them. And countries could probably somehow force Google to continue operating Youtube there by threatning other Google products.

I kinda doubt it. Youtube's "moat" against competition is the fact that storing, processing, and serving video is insanely expensive. Google can only afford to do it to begin with because they are the world's largest digital advertising company.

It would have to be another player willing to invest a ton upfront, and continue burning ludicrous amounts of capital over many years before they could actually compete

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#169

Post by ketzu » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

My personal experience with a similar rule from Kongregate: I had to file a W-8(BEN?) [1] where I can specify the double-texation traty between my country and the US. I filed everything (with some, but not much support from kongregate) via kongregate itself. It took a bit time to look up the treaty (found on the us irs website [2]), but it wasn't too bad all in all. So no double taxation.

I would have expected for youtube to work the same.

[1] http://www.kongregate.com/de/pages/international-tax-faq

[2] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/tax-...

Re: YouTube tells foreign creators they will soon be charged American tax

#170

Post by 5560675260 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

tinyhouse wrote: post #67

chrisseaton wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right - my point was YouTube can just not show the videos to viewers in Spain. The company isn’t based there - it can forget about it if it wants. What would Spain do about it?

Are you suggesting Youtube stop showing their videos outside the US? You're probably not aware that Youtube has far more users internationally. They will get crashed.

This would be great, could lead to creation of several national level alternatives.