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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#831

Post by aleksjess »

saalweachter wrote: post #220
jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

There are third parties involved with exchanging cash, even though it might not be obvious. Central banks take part indirectly in these transactions, since they guarantee the value of the money.

The double spending problem is not a problem; it was solved already with BTC. You can always have your crypto on a physical drive, which kinda makes it like cash in the sense that you can have it in your hands like cash.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#832

Post by mikestaub »

BTC incentivizes miners to find cheap power. As renewables become cheaper than non-renewables, this incentivizes innovation in green energy which will benefit the planet long term. The fact the most of the mining is done in China with coal is a geopolitical detail that will change in the coming years.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#833

Post by CountDrewku »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #827
CountDrewku wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh the media... I mean he's everywhere being interviewed constantly on what his opinion is on everything. This obviously promotes the idea (right or wrong) that he has some idea of what he's talking about.

The media also interviews Kanye, Elon, and the cookie monster because they are celebrities but that doesn't mean we have to believe what they say. I think it is reasonable to think that bill gates has some idea what he is talking about, especially because in this case he is essentially saying 2+2=4. Still, he is not the definitive authority on crypto.

It has nothing to do with whether WE HAVE to believe what they say. It has to do with the fact that their status gives their words more power. Whether YOU personally believe them is irrelevant. Many people DO take his words for fact just because of who is and that creates an issue. This is exactly how celebrities sway public thinking on many issues and then down the road certain politicians get voted in and then what you believe and actual facts take a backseat to the policy the majority has voted on.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#834

Post by CountDrewku »

asdff wrote: post #830
CountDrewku wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's coming from the fact that Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world and has massive sway over his followers. This is dangerous. It's the same reason celebrities speaking on issues they have no idea about is dangerous. People will take his word for truth when he's no more informed than the average citizen on what's happening.

People do that for everyone. It doesn't have to be bill gates. You might believe some conspiracy theory because your uncle shared it on facebook and you trust his opinion more than some domain expert.

Yes.. and how does that make anything I said incorrect?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#835

Post by ruined »

throwaway20875 wrote: post #387
ruined wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those oligarchs won't be able to print more bitcoin or exclude (sanctions) their political enemies from conducting trade. Seems fairer than the current system. Sure they would. If bitcoin continues to exist much longer, you'll likely see the larger governments define a set of rules for domestic miners, perhaps including requirements to only process transactions from registered accounts or signed by specific keys, or…

What you're suggesting is a fork, which would not be Bitcoin at that point.

the "real" bitcoin among forks is culturally determined, and institutions with power right now have the most control over that

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#836

Post by jf22 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #828
jf22 wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>globalized monetary policy Could we do this without burning more energy than entire countries?

Great question, but I'll answer a slightly different question. > If and when we have a globalized monetary policy, how do we run it without burning more energy than entire countries? 1. You could get all entities governing the market / governing the globalized monetary policy to perfectly trust each other. Seems impossible given the Prisoner's Dilemma is exponentially more difficult to solve as the number of actors g…

I don't see any answer here, just speculation and more questions.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#837

Post by la_fayette »

kbenson wrote: post #452
la_fayette wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think understanding bitcoin from a systems point of view is of great value. Although proof of work is problematic, the idea and manifestation of a censorship resisten electronic monetary system is just amazing. Bitcoin is actually working for more than 10 years... There are alternatives to PoW, e.g. ethereum 2.0, let's see if this works and than judge again...

> censorship resisten electronic monetary system I feel sorry for anyone that expects bitcoin to actually be anonymous. Given that we can use statistics and timing to determine the memory contents and instructions run on different cores in a CPU, anyone that uses a currency that keeps public global transaction log and thinks they can anonymize themselves by just mixing their money in a pool is in for a rude awakening…

Have you checked and understood taproot? Do you really think the bitcoin protocol is not innovating?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#838

Post by yazaddaruvala »

jf22 wrote: post #836
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question, but I'll answer a slightly different question. > If and when we have a globalized monetary policy, how do we run it without burning more energy than entire countries? 1. You could get all entities governing the market / governing the globalized monetary policy to perfectly trust each other. Seems impossible given the Prisoner's Dilemma is exponentially more difficult to solve as the number of actors g…

I don't see any answer here, just speculation and more questions.

> Could we do this without burning more energy than entire countries?

Based on my (arguably poor) ability to predict the future the answer seems to be a "No, crypto energy consumption will always be more than most countries".

Other people like the ETH and Nano developers seem to believe the answer is "Yes it is possible to be more efficient with crypto mining". However, I don't know their stance on "Will the energy consumption still be more than most countries?"

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#839

Post by s1artibartfast »

CountDrewku wrote: post #833
s1artibartfast wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The media also interviews Kanye, Elon, and the cookie monster because they are celebrities but that doesn't mean we have to believe what they say. I think it is reasonable to think that bill gates has some idea what he is talking about, especially because in this case he is essentially saying 2+2=4. Still, he is not the definitive authority on crypto.

It has nothing to do with whether WE HAVE to believe what they say. It has to do with the fact that their status gives their words more power. Whether YOU personally believe them is irrelevant. Many people DO take his words for fact just because of who is and that creates an issue. This is exactly how celebrities sway public thinking on many issues and then down the road certain politicians get voted in and then what…

If your primary point is that mainstream news isn't educational, then I agree. Most news is entertainment, pure and simple. The more people realize this and the sooner, the better.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#840

Post by kbenson »

la_fayette wrote: post #837
kbenson wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> censorship resisten electronic monetary system I feel sorry for anyone that expects bitcoin to actually be anonymous. Given that we can use statistics and timing to determine the memory contents and instructions run on different cores in a CPU, anyone that uses a currency that keeps public global transaction log and thinks they can anonymize themselves by just mixing their money in a pool is in for a rude awakening…

Have you checked and understood taproot? Do you really think the bitcoin protocol is not innovating?

I haven't, but I'll take a look. My completely green suspicion knowing nothing about it at this point is that it's probably just a step up in an arms race, to which more advanced statistical techniques could be developed and applied to eventually, which means past transactions using old methods are vulnerable to being traced. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though, so I'll take a look.

Edit: As suspected, it's not a silver bullet.[1]

1: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoins-taproot-upgrade-wont...

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