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UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#111

Post by zepto »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #55
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There needs to be a clause that makes the software and other designs specifications openly available (or for some small fee, not exceeding a reasonable percentage of the product's retail price), once the product is no longer supported by the manufacturer. I.e. the manufacturer has produced a newer - presumably better - device that non-technical users will want to buy, and the old devices can be handed down to more te…

Definitely. The problem here is that manufacturers will claim that parts old of software and design specs are used in the new device, which makes them a legitimate trade secret they shouldn't be forced to reveal.

> manufacturers will claim that parts old of software and design is specs are used in the new device

It’s not just ‘a claim’. I can’t think of many systems where this is not true.

The iPhone still contains code from NextStep for example.

I do think old (or new) hardware must be allowed to run open software, so I’d be all for mandating a ‘bootcamp’ equivalent, which did have open specs for implementers.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#112

Post by zepto »

starmftronajoll wrote: post #109
zepto wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what about the right to replace/repair the L1 cache? Are you suggesting the right to repair should include this?

They seem to be suggesting that the L1 cache is obviously a different story. Source: sentence immediately after the one you quoted

You haven’t answered my question any more than they did.

It’s not obvious at all how they think it’s different.

It’s obviously harder to repair or replace, but it’s not clear whether they think the goal is to make it repairable.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#113

Post by Zenst »

draklor40 wrote: post #7

Only a matter of time before they modify the Law to introduce a catch that makes it practically worthless. A - A classification system that makes defines how "easy" it is to repair something, but necessarily doesn't mean that you or I can repair it at home.It will be "easy" IF you have the right 50,000 GBP tool. B - Modify right to repair as good for the environment rule. There will be an escape clause that says that…

> Given how much of EU innovation is bogged down by regulatory capture, I am extremely skeptical of this (note, I know EU/UK are separated, but nevertheless, lobbying is lobbying, universally)

I share your scepticism about lobbying, was always mindful that Brussels in regards to the EU made lobbiests access to MEP's easier than the people they serve and all in one location - a lobbiyst dream that.

So be interesting how the EU and UK versions of this law diverge over time.

But however cynical I am, it's better than what we have now and from that, a start. How it goes from there will be future changes and debate down the line.

I certainly hope the whole green/eco/responsible ethos is used to drive thru improvements like this and shift away from disposable, cheap, just engineered enough to last a few years when a bit of extra cost would of made it last longer.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#114

Post by suyjuris »

pabs3 wrote: post #49
aboringusername wrote: post #13

I think any right to repair needs to solve 2 problems: 1: Fixing bad hardware (schematics and such) 2: Fixing old/buggy/broken software that renders said hardware useless. Without open kernels, drivers, frameworks your "right to repair" is meaningless. When you install a new camera to iPhone and it complains it's not genuine because the software says so, the right to repair becomes less useful as now Apple holds all…

Most TVs run Linux so asking them for GPLed code should work, failing that, it is a GPL violation that should be reported to Software Freedom Conservancy, who can help bring the vendor into compliance. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/

You can get the code, but you might not be able to do anything with it, as there is no obligation for the manufacturer to enable you to run the code on the device itself. GPLv3 intends to cover this case, but the Linux kernel is (not without reason) licensed under GPLv2.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#115

Post by bluGill »

simion314 wrote: post #75
foobar33333 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already work this way. If you swap almost any part on the iphone it either refuses to work or shows a warning about a unofficial part. My suggestion is simply to make this functionality only target stolen parts instead of just refusing to work at all if the apple store hasn't used their software to bless the new serial number.

Why should Apple decide what part I put in the phone? If the phone is out of warranty then I should be able to use batteries, screens, chargers or software that is not blessed by Apple's grace. When I was a kid we were "repairing" our cheap watches by using parts from broken ones, at most what Apple could do is print a giant warning on the boot screen that the phone is no longer blessed by Apple so people that want t…

Because a source of parts is devices that are stolen and stripped for the parts. The parts are then laundered so you think your source is legal. By putting a serial number on each part it means you go after the supplier who you otherwise thought was honest and so this whole scheme shuts down.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#116

Post by avianlyric »

glitchc wrote: post #95
aboringusername wrote: post #13

I think any right to repair needs to solve 2 problems: 1: Fixing bad hardware (schematics and such) 2: Fixing old/buggy/broken software that renders said hardware useless. Without open kernels, drivers, frameworks your "right to repair" is meaningless. When you install a new camera to iPhone and it complains it's not genuine because the software says so, the right to repair becomes less useful as now Apple holds all…

Maybe a fridge doesn't need software? I don't hear consumers clamouring for it.

But fridges do have software. There’s code in there monitoring and regulating the compressor, monitoring temperatures and making decisions.

Thankfully these problems are so simple companies rarely fuckup the software. But it does happen, and then hardware is run slightly out of spec resulting in failures.

Have the right to replace the software would be amazing. It would give people the ability to replace slightly broken firmware with better firmware extending the life of their products or even add new featured.

For a fridge new features could be simple things like the ability to change its temperature on a schedule, ability to respond electricity prices etc

Agree that most people aren’t interested in this. But if we’re serious about increasing the usefulness and longevity of these products then giving people the ability to make these changes can only be a plus. And to be clear I don’t think having a USB port of every fridge is a good idea, but releasing enough information that field technicians to make these changes easily would be enough.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#117

Post by nanna »

ifixit has only ever given two phones 10/10 in its repairability scores, the Fairphone 2 and 3, and only one other phone has scored above 7 since 2017. What we really need is system to seriously penalise manufacturers until they fundamentally change practices.

https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability?sort=score

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#118

Post by avianlyric »

zepto wrote: post #108
foobar33333 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with unofficial repairs right now is where the parts come from. If you buy an iphone camera, where does that camera actually come from. I doubt there is an unoffical iphone camera factory. So those parts only have 2 sources, broken and stolen iphones. What ideally would happen is each part on the iphone has a serial number and is registered with icloud. If a phone gets stolen, you get a message wh…

> Apple should be forced to publicly sell this part for a reasonable price for x years. This means generating a vast amount of e-waste and increasing the cost of units. Since Apple doesn’t make the components themselves, they would have to warehouse a supply of spares.

Apple must have access to these parts already because they’ll happily do out of warranty repairs, even on products that they no long sell.

Asking them to make that supply publicly available does not strike me as a huge ask. Hell they could derive the supply from their recycling efforts they’re always showing off as WWDC.

Also how does providing spare parts result in huge amounts of e-waste, that’s a bit of a non-sequitur. The whole point of spares is to remove the need to throw away a device that’s 90% fine 10% broken.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#119

Post by SyzygistSix »

smitty1e wrote: post #22

Whither capitalism? Why are companies not marketing along the lines of: "You can tinker with this. Our product does not treat you like the product." I'd pay a 20% premium or so not to be spied upon and enslaved. "Freedom isn't free. There's a heavy [FLOWERBED] fee."

Most people find the DIY ethic completely alien. The number of people impressed that I could make my own burritos - requiring about the same skill as making a sandwich - is pretty indicative. The numbers on adoption of the Linux desktop is another, I think.

Re: UK 'Right to repair' law to come in this summer

#120

Post by marshmallow_12 »

kitd wrote: post #33
draklor40 wrote: post #7

Only a matter of time before they modify the Law to introduce a catch that makes it practically worthless. A - A classification system that makes defines how "easy" it is to repair something, but necessarily doesn't mean that you or I can repair it at home.It will be "easy" IF you have the right 50,000 GBP tool. B - Modify right to repair as good for the environment rule. There will be an escape clause that says that…

OTOH, removing things like "Warranty void if this sticker is removed" clauses means the pressure is on manufacturers to actually think carefully about how their product can be repaired.

Those stickers are probably one of the nastiest things that exist on any hardware, anywhere..
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