We created a fake language to root out resume liars • Hacker News Board

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#281

Post by yowlingcat » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

Pick-A-Hill2019 wrote: post #238

I've been an IT consultant to 2x recruitment agencies in the past so can confirm with an n+2 confidence that at least some agencies mistreat their recruitment staff in ways that would shock even the most sociopathic sweat shop owner. Think high pressure sales tactics and the almost daily threat directly hurled across the office for recruiter X or Y to 'meet their targets or GTFO'. Fortunately I was a freelancer but I…

> I consider that one of my many dodged bullets (Sorry for going slighly off-topic, my bad).

I don't think that's off topic at all. I agree that you really did dodge a bullet. For an interviewer to treat you with such disrespect over something which is so trivial and inconsequential is an immediate red flag. The purpose of an interview is not just to assess, but to sell the role to the candidate. "Negging" is an antagonistic interaction which is utterly inappropriate for the professional environment.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#282

Post by SaintGhurka » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #36

To be fair, there's not many more CF jobs than MOVA jobs these days :-) On a serious note, there was a moment when candidates were claiming to have 10+ years of Rails experience when DHH was literally the only person in existence who could make that claim https://www.strategic-options.com/insight/2019/06/13/you-can...

> To be fair, there's not many more CF jobs than MOVA jobs these days :-)

20-year CF dev here. It's a weird market. There aren't a lot of jobs, but there also aren't a lot of candidates. So interviews have an interesting power dynamic. Sometimes they're downright fun because you both know that the company doesn't have a lot of other options.

On the other hand, if I'm ever unemployed, I know that power dynamic will be working against me.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#283

Post by meepmorp » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

karlding wrote: post #33

sdoering wrote: post #26

This reminded me of a talk [1] at pyData Berlin some years ago. Vincent demonstrated how he used some ML techniques to create fake pokemon sounding names to put into his LinkedIn resume. So that he could filter out headhunters without any real knowledge. To quote from my notes [2] of the conference: > There is a striking phonetic similarity between big data technology and pokemon names. Can you create a service that…

There's also a Pokemon or Big Data quiz [0]. [0] http://pixelastic.github.io/pokemonorbigdata/

I got 100%! Mostly because my 8 year old happened to ask what I was doing and identified all the pokemon for me.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#284

Post by jeremyjh » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

supportlocal4h wrote: post #149

dnh44 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memorising openings is also a crutch for players who aren’t that good so I’m not sure if I would use that as a benchmark for good players.

Memorizing openings is not a crutch. It's the only path upward past a certain point. It is impossible to play competitively at, say, the 2000 level if you haven't mastered a few openings. If you want to play 800-level chess, you can have fun without knowing any set openings. Well, almost. You'd better be able to recognize and defend scholar's mate at a bare minimum. But that is a bit like being an amateur programmer…

I doubt if you can play competitively at the 1600 level without knowing some opening theory. That'd be like playing against a 3200 for the first six moves and then hoping you are not worse. GP has no idea what he is talking about; it is stronger players who study theory. Weak players may/learn a few tricks/gambits, but you have to learn at least enough of those to avoid them.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#285

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it.

hmm, I've found 3 jobs today I'm absolutely perfect for and this one that I'm nearly perfect for but wants some experience in something called Mova. Guess I just send a resume to the 3 jobs I'm perfect for.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#286

Post by estaseuropano » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #256

ezconnect wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once coded for a recruitment agency and they get paid a recruitment fee equal to a 1 month salary of their recruit.

they get paid a recruitment fee equal to a 1 month salary of their recruit It can go a lot higher than that, 3-4 months salary for more senior hires. The good news is this means the recruiter is incentivised to help you negotiate higher pay

Just like the real estate agent is incentivised to get you a higher price for your home?

No, the increase they get is marginal, compared to just 'closing the deal'. Especially when the company is a repeat customer their incentives are to get decent candidates quickly into a role without causing any issues.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#287

Post by intellirogue » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

paranoidrobot wrote: post #144

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the spirit of Hacker News I'd like to respond to this decidedly human problem with a technical question: which file format did you use for your CV? Was it an easily-edited .docx file, or a PDF? The PDF format is somewhat awkward to edit. I've never put much stock in the idea that this is one of its virtues, but for this specific kind of manipulation I can see it might be effective.

I have to say that it pretty much doesn't matter anymore. In the last ~4 years I've only sent out PDF copies of my Resume to Recruiters. A couple of have turned around and asked for it in DOC/DOCX, but a whole bunch more have just copy/pasted it into their own template and sent that to the employer. I've turned up to interviews and offered the interviewers copies of my resume, and they wave something with the recruit…

Exactly this. As someone on the hiring side, most Resumes that come my way are identical layout for every candidate a recruiter sends.

As soon as I'm talking to a candidate 1-on-1 (without the recruiter proxying) I ask them to provided me an original copy of their Resume, because the recruiter may have left out important details (thinking them irrelevant, as recruiters typically aren't tech-savvy) when copy+pasting into their template.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#288

Post by winfred » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

>I've been to plenty of interviews where my CV hasn't been given more than a glance.

I have a fake programming language on my resume, has been there for years. To top it off, I used a well known video game cheat code.

I've been hired several times with that on my resume, so far no one has ever mentioned it.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#289

Post by indeed30 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #276

dempseye wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recruiter did good work here. I suspect this was a screw up in internal HR. The external recruiter has absolutely no incentive to send you for an interview you will bomb out of.

Nonsense told to me repeatedly by recruiters over the years: - (your point) no incentive to send you for an interview if not a good fit. - "I make more money if you make your money" often said to spin the "what is your salary requirement" question Most recruiters work for an agency. Agencies have accounts with businesses. The account is central. You are in no position whatsoever to make determination as to what incen…

Yes, recruiters have accounts with companies, but in my experience the recruitment fee is a percentage of salary, and the individual recruiter compensation is on a commission model. In short, I personally have no problems in believing that the higher the salary, the higher the payment to both the recruitment company and individual recruiter.

However, I think we all know that closing the deal is far more important to the recruiter than negotiating small changes to the salary, so your point stands.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#290

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

EveYoung wrote: post #255

onion2k wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It demonstrates that the client actually read the contract.

Does it? If someone from legal reads the contract, why would they bother dealing with this gimmicky clause? The budget has already been approved and sending someone a plant might cost another 30min of their time they rather spent on doing their job.

If legal reads it you're at least gonna get an email to the tune of "hey WTF is this? did someone sneak a joke into the draft?" which is sufficient for proving they read it.