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LulzSec hacks NHS.

bbc.co.uk

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Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#31
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suspect that it's because the primary mission of the NHS is to provide jobs for bureaucrats, any healthcare we happen to get is just a side effect. Same with the MoD and submarines.

Even the most incompetent bureaucrat doesn't actively want to do a bad job. And I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say "we exist to provide jobs, with healthcare as a side effect" anywhere in the NHS charter. Gov't IT projects suck because the RFP process is the most waterfall thing in existence, meaning the project is doomed from the start. And it goes downhill from there, with absurd amounts of politics and turf-prote…

Well you could never say it outright, could you? But consider that the last government increased the number of nurses by 10% yet doubled the number of managers. Other than shuffling paper back and forth amongst each other, what do they do?

It's a truism that a bureaucracy always seeks to expand itself. They could all be brilliant at it, but the problem is a) it takes time and b) isn't actually necessary oh and c) they are all paid a fortune to do it, including their gold-plated pensions.

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#32
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come? What's causing it?

I would suspect that it's because the primary mission of the NHS is to provide jobs for bureaucrats, any healthcare we happen to get is just a side effect. Same with the MoD and submarines.

"primary mission of the NHS is to provide jobs for bureaucrats"

That might be the case for the bureaucrats in the NHS (of which there are too many) but I'm pretty sure that most of the actual front line staff are there to help patients.

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#33
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the most incompetent bureaucrat doesn't actively want to do a bad job. And I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say "we exist to provide jobs, with healthcare as a side effect" anywhere in the NHS charter. Gov't IT projects suck because the RFP process is the most waterfall thing in existence, meaning the project is doomed from the start. And it goes downhill from there, with absurd amounts of politics and turf-prote…

Well you could never say it outright, could you? But consider that the last government increased the number of nurses by 10% yet doubled the number of managers. Other than shuffling paper back and forth amongst each other, what do they do ? It's a truism that a bureaucracy always seeks to expand itself. They could all be brilliant at it, but the problem is a) it takes time and b) isn't actually necessary oh and c) th…

Well, it's not hard to convince me that large bureaucratic organizations turn into a mess.

But the same thing happens in private industry, too. Constantly. And nobody would ever label a private bureaucratic mess as "there to provide jobs first and turn a profit second". That was my bone of contention with your post, you're mistaking generic incompetence for something more perverse.

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#34
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s wasted either way. £20bn would be much better sunk into renewables and energy independence.

It's a matter of perspective, there are shrill voices saying that if we scrap Trident all our economic woes will be over, but really there are much, much lower hanging fruit than that. A windfall tax on the big IT outsourcing firms would be a good start.

Having a salary cap for public sector employees might be another way of doing things - say the same level as the PM (£140K or so).

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#35
post #24

Anonymous is the best that could ever happen for proponents of a crackdown on freedom (through/via/on the internet). No one knows who's behind it, so no one will stand up for them, no one will complain if they get harassed and all the blaim for everything that goes wrong in the future goes to Anon/hackers. It's the perfect scapegoat for incompetence.

Does it really matter who the scapegoat is? At all? A few short years ago we had scary arab terrorists, I think they're still a bigger scapegoat than anon. Anonymous doesn't change anything as far as excuses. If they're looking for an excuse to crack down, they can always make up an Emmanuel Goldstein.

> A few short years ago we had scary arab terrorists, I think they're still a bigger scapegoat than anon.

Both Anon and arab terrorists have carried out numerous attacks...

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#36
post #35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really matter who the scapegoat is? At all? A few short years ago we had scary arab terrorists, I think they're still a bigger scapegoat than anon. Anonymous doesn't change anything as far as excuses. If they're looking for an excuse to crack down, they can always make up an Emmanuel Goldstein.

> A few short years ago we had scary arab terrorists, I think they're still a bigger scapegoat than anon. Both Anon and arab terrorists have carried out numerous attacks...

Awesome. Great way to cram them into the same sentence. They both start with "a", too!

We've already proven that if you put "Saddam" and "al Qaeda" in the same sentence enough times, you can convince a majority of the USA that they're buddies. Let's see if we can do it here, too.

More to the point.. I can't stand the logic of "they should quit attempting to fight for freedom because authorities will use them as an excuse to crack down". It's exactly backwards to me. You can disagree with their motives or goals or whatever but that particular logic is terrible.

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#37
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of perspective, there are shrill voices saying that if we scrap Trident all our economic woes will be over, but really there are much, much lower hanging fruit than that. A windfall tax on the big IT outsourcing firms would be a good start.

Having a salary cap for public sector employees might be another way of doing things - say the same level as the PM (£140K or so).

A more interesting scenario would be to cap all MP's pay, incl. the PM's, at the national average wage.

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#38
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you could never say it outright, could you? But consider that the last government increased the number of nurses by 10% yet doubled the number of managers. Other than shuffling paper back and forth amongst each other, what do they do ? It's a truism that a bureaucracy always seeks to expand itself. They could all be brilliant at it, but the problem is a) it takes time and b) isn't actually necessary oh and c) th…

Well, it's not hard to convince me that large bureaucratic organizations turn into a mess. But the same thing happens in private industry, too. Constantly. And nobody would ever label a private bureaucratic mess as "there to provide jobs first and turn a profit second". That was my bone of contention with your post, you're mistaking generic incompetence for something more perverse.

Mmm, but corporations frequently correct for that by downsizing. Governments do it very, very rarely.

The PCS union picketed Downing Street over proposals to reduce their redundancy package from 3 years salary to 2...

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#39
post #36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A few short years ago we had scary arab terrorists, I think they're still a bigger scapegoat than anon. Both Anon and arab terrorists have carried out numerous attacks...

Awesome. Great way to cram them into the same sentence. They both start with "a", too! We've already proven that if you put "Saddam" and "al Qaeda" in the same sentence enough times, you can convince a majority of the USA that they're buddies. Let's see if we can do it here, too. More to the point.. I can't stand the logic of "they should quit attempting to fight for freedom because authorities will use them as an ex…

> "they should quit attempting to fight for freedom because authorities will use them as an excuse to crack down"

Who's fighting for freedom? Anon is a bunch of man-children (or actual children) 'fighting the man' behind anonymity from their parents' basements in suburbia. It's not cool or heroic. I completely don't understand this mentality that what Anon is doing should be commended. It's vigilantism and there's a reason that's not good 'IRL'.

Also I don't know what 'freedom' Arab terrorists are fighting for. The common trope is that they're fighting 'Western imperialism', but that's insane -- the most worn out excuse that the Arab world has used for their lack of innovation or scientific contribution since 1100[1]. I hope you're fine getting blown up for their cause[2].

1. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w (lecture from Neil Degrassi Tyson)

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism

Re: LulzSec hacks NHS.

#40
post #39
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome. Great way to cram them into the same sentence. They both start with "a", too! We've already proven that if you put "Saddam" and "al Qaeda" in the same sentence enough times, you can convince a majority of the USA that they're buddies. Let's see if we can do it here, too. More to the point.. I can't stand the logic of "they should quit attempting to fight for freedom because authorities will use them as an ex…

> "they should quit attempting to fight for freedom because authorities will use them as an excuse to crack down" Who's fighting for freedom? Anon is a bunch of man-children (or actual children) 'fighting the man' behind anonymity from their parents' basements in suburbia. It's not cool or heroic. I completely don't understand this mentality that what Anon is doing should be commended. It's vigilantism and there's a…

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