We created a fake language to root out resume liars • Hacker News Board

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#141

Post by juangacovas » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #126

Serious question: if you're applying for positions you're not totally confident in your experience and skillset, do you inflate your resume? My thinking goes that if I slip in by being dishonest, I'll be nervous of being found out, feel an intruder. So being honest and taking a longer time looking for match would get more comfort later on.

I've interviewed on occasion (IT related). By far, the worst experience was about someone I approved and later discovered he clearly cheated/lied in the interview. Like, I set too high expectations and slowly but consistently realizing that "this guy just lied to me" in so many levels.

I learnt from that so yes, for me, lying in an interview is the worst thing you can do.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#142

Post by slezyr » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

> What I'm not surprised about though is why they do it

They get a bonus for hire.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#143

Post by NullPrefix » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

habosa wrote: post #122

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

This is why some recruiters demand a DOCX of a resume, not just a PDF. They edit them before submitting them to postings. Sometimes they're honest edits to improve your chances, but mostly it's lying to get you in the door.

Only sending PDFs sounds like a an easy way to weed this category out.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#144

Post by paranoidrobot » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #128

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

In the spirit of Hacker News I'd like to respond to this decidedly human problem with a technical question: which file format did you use for your CV? Was it an easily-edited .docx file, or a PDF? The PDF format is somewhat awkward to edit. I've never put much stock in the idea that this is one of its virtues, but for this specific kind of manipulation I can see it might be effective.

I have to say that it pretty much doesn't matter anymore.

In the last ~4 years I've only sent out PDF copies of my Resume to Recruiters.

A couple of have turned around and asked for it in DOC/DOCX, but a whole bunch more have just copy/pasted it into their own template and sent that to the employer.

I've turned up to interviews and offered the interviewers copies of my resume, and they wave something with the recruiters's logo all over it and not looking at all like what I sent in.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#145

Post by goodlinks » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

practicalpants wrote: post #110

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

Yep, for my first programming job out of college a recruiter arranged an onsite interview for a Java role, when I was under every impression it was for Ruby/Rails. I don't know Java. The first interviewer laughed and walked out. I explained things to the recruiter, he cursed, said he would "visit the Ruby team upstairs". He actually managed to setup an impromptu on-site interview with the Ruby team on that same day.…

This makes me chuckle, and its a nice story cos you got a job :)..

All the controls in the world mean bugger all when ultimately the deciding factor is a human.

No one ever wants to admit that the world runs on trust and respect :).

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#146

Post by devenblake » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

Reading all these replies and - what the hell? Are recruiters really that common? Are bad recruiters really that common? I wasn't aware this was even a thing.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#147

Post by prepend » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #36

To be fair, there's not many more CF jobs than MOVA jobs these days :-) On a serious note, there was a moment when candidates were claiming to have 10+ years of Rails experience when DHH was literally the only person in existence who could make that claim https://www.strategic-options.com/insight/2019/06/13/you-can...

It’s funny how I came across some posting that wanted 10 years of Java when that wasn’t possible. I asked the recruiter what the deal was and they said they had to choose from a drop down of “1-3,3-10,10+” so they chose the highest one because Java was really important.

They didn’t even know what Java was or how old it was.

This helped me understand how little misunderstandings can get amplified into things that seem really specific and set in stone. So the whole “question everything” approach really helps here as assuming that just because a number is specific that it was chosen for a specific reason is rarely true.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#148

Post by paranoidrobot » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

NullPrefix wrote: post #143

habosa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why some recruiters demand a DOCX of a resume, not just a PDF. They edit them before submitting them to postings. Sometimes they're honest edits to improve your chances, but mostly it's lying to get you in the door.

Only sending PDFs sounds like a an easy way to weed this category out.

As mentioned in another post on this thread, a lot of recruiters will happily copy/paste from your PDF to their template.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#149

Post by supportlocal4h » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

dnh44 wrote: post #95

ivalm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, lots of people colloquially claim to be good at chess but can’t even stumble though a proper opening. The difference between say a class-a player and a rando is massive and easy to tell.

Memorising openings is also a crutch for players who aren’t that good so I’m not sure if I would use that as a benchmark for good players.

Memorizing openings is not a crutch. It's the only path upward past a certain point. It is impossible to play competitively at, say, the 2000 level if you haven't mastered a few openings.

If you want to play 800-level chess, you can have fun without knowing any set openings. Well, almost. You'd better be able to recognize and defend scholar's mate at a bare minimum.

But that is a bit like being an amateur programmer who never learns what a function is. You can still enjoy programming at that level, but it's odd to describe functions as crutches.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#150

Post by arethuza » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

projectileboy wrote: post #136

dmos62 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez louise, imagine working somewhere where coworkers are regularly abused to tears. I really hope that that's an isolated case.

Nope. Sales is sales is sales. It’s a pretty harsh world. If you’ve been a solid performer for years, maybe you can miss one monthly quota. Lots of abuse.

I used to know a chap who was a successful partner at a top UK law firm - he had a very successful run of work that lasted for years and made a lot of money for everyone. However, eventually he it came to an end and he had a less than successful month - he got the same bollocking about performance as everyone else, and in front of his entire team too.

Some organisations are just run like that.