We created a fake language to root out resume liars • Hacker News Board

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#121

Post by ilaksh » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:02 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

I had a front-end long-term contract many years ago that required expertise with C#, WPF, Silverlight and something else I forget. I had those things covered, but I soon learned that I was also supposedly an expert in SharePoint and an experienced graphic artist. The reality is that if they had given me any requirements for SharePoint I could have built that for them even though I had never used it. But graphic design I had no interest in. A few weeks in there was a lunch with recruiters and contractors for the project and one of the other recruiters (not the one who submitted me for the job) asked me something like, "when did you first realize that you loved to draw?" or something. I told her honestly I was horrible at drawing and not interested in it.

One of the reasons I got fired from that contract eventually (aside from a fight with a manipulative SOB who was fresh off a career as a local TV news personality and was holding the project up in his backend role) was that they were disappointed with my lack of interesting user interface designs.

I never told anyone I was a graphic artist. Even if I did have that skill (or interest) (which I had neither), I was too busy dealing with new WPF/XAML/C# features and software design etc.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#122

Post by habosa » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:02 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

This is why some recruiters demand a DOCX of a resume, not just a PDF. They edit them before submitting them to postings.

Sometimes they're honest edits to improve your chances, but mostly it's lying to get you in the door.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#123

Post by Gaelan » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

antonvs wrote: post #91

zelos wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how?

Something to do with blockchain, I assume.

Thanks, I audibly laughed.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#124

Post by isolli » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

This anecdote was recounted by Nassim Taleb in one of his books, either Fooled by Randomness (which I recommend) or The Black Swan (which I don't).

According to him, it was MBA courses that recommended adding chess to the CV, as it showed strategic thinking and would never be verified.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#125

Post by LudwigNagasena » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

DocTomoe wrote: post #92

alexf95 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GM would easily figure out at what chess level he is though. No one expecting him to beat the GM of course.

The point is that that still is pretty meaningless. You can enjoy a game of chess even if you are not very good at it, much like you can enjoy a game of golf for the aspect of walking around in a well-kept park and having a chat, and see some improvement in your handicap over time. I would not expect someone who puts chess on a resume to play competitively, which is a whole different beast.

Sure, only like 100 top GMs can play competitively, but there are over 1000 GMs who do it as a hobby while they work at Google, Microsoft or any other company.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#126

Post by dmos62 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

Serious question: if you're applying for positions you're not totally confident in your experience and skillset, do you inflate your resume?

My thinking goes that if I slip in by being dishonest, I'll be nervous of being found out, feel an intruder. So being honest and taking a longer time looking for match would get more comfort later on.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#127

Post by sundvor » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #74

fergie wrote: post #37

I find it particularly ironic that it has fallen to a Facebook group of Cold Fusion programmers to call out poor choices. Those of us who actually worked at 1st generation dotcoms know that absolutely nobody had any idea what they were doing, even at the "proper" ones, and things were moving so fast that you absolutely _had_ to fake it until you made it.

It's funny, but if CF solved your problem and put money on your bank account then it did its job.

Until they cooked up Spectra.

:)

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#128

Post by MaxBarraclough » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

In the spirit of Hacker News I'd like to respond to this decidedly human problem with a technical question: which file format did you use for your CV? Was it an easily-edited .docx file, or a PDF?

The PDF format is somewhat awkward to edit. I've never put much stock in the idea that this is one of its virtues, but for this specific kind of manipulation I can see it might be effective.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#129

Post by GuB-42 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

How is it usually written on the resume?

I would expect someone to be actually good at chess to put down their Elo rating. For someone just putting it as a hobby, I wouldn't expect much, especially when it comes to the "boring" stuff like memorizing openings.

In the same way that there is usually a difference between what high level athletes and hobbyist write. The former usually mention something concrete (champion of..., XXX league, a time or score, ...) while the latter just mention the sport, often among other things.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#130

Post by prepend » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

lsh123 wrote: post #20

Long long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used requirement in job postings “10 years of Java experience” (when Java was about 7 years old) as a filter: people who wrote me complaining about unrealistic requirement got interviews; people who sent resumes with 15 years of Java went into /dev/null

Seems odd to filter for people who have time and inclination to seek out the job poster and complain that they’re stupid. I guess if you want argumentative detectives that’s good.

If I insert a joke into a job spec, I don’t want it to seem like I’m an idiot. I assume that any competent people I want to work with will value non-idiots and not want to work with idiots.

In this case you weren’t an idiot, but just testing people’s grit or honesty or whatnot. But I would just assume the spec was written by an oblivious HR person who, at best, or perhaps an oblivious hiring manager. So I would have only applied if I really needed the money.