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Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

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Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#281

Post by Spooky23 »

vkou wrote: post #189
brandmeyer wrote: post #78

Hol' up. While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings , Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders. While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation l…

> How was selling more stock in that situation legal? Why should it not be? Consider the following situation: 1. Alice owns 5 shares of Hertz. 2. Hertz owns 5 shares of Hertz. 3. Bob is an ape. For some stupid reason, Bob wants to buy 5 shares of Hertz. Is it immoral or illegal for Alice to sell her 5 shares to Bob? If not, why should it be immoral or illegal for Hertz to do so? Especially if they are up front about…

1. Alice owns three cartons of unfiltered cigarettes. They are harsh and kids don’t buy them.

2. RJ Reynolds owns many cartons of Camels. Reynolds creates a cartoon camel called Joe Camel, who is as recognizable to 6 year olds as Mickey Mouse.

3. Bob is a 11 year old. For some stupid reason, Bob wants to smoke Camels and be cool like Joe.

Is it immoral for Reynolds to sell to an 11 year old? Is it immoral for Alice to sell her cigarettes to Bob?

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#282

Post by 3131s »

lucb1e wrote: post #179
ENOTTY wrote: post #173

I deliberately bought a share of Hertz during the craze. I knew it had filed for bankruptcy. If Hertz was somehow rescued, I could make some money and have an interesting story. Maybe the shareholder meetings would be ridiculous parties with other crazy retail investors. But even if existing shareholders would be wiped out, I wanted to see first hand what happens in this sort of situation. (So far I haven't received…

I'm involved in two cases: MtGox and Grupeer. Neither were publicly traded companies that went bankrupt, but they're insolvency cases in general. In the former I had some play money (by now the coins owed might be worth thousands, but back then it was pennies) and didn't spend time figuring this out properly, in the latter I have a few thousand euros and collectively we (~2500 people) got ourselves a law firm in the…

I had some coins in a smaller exchange that went down, as in at least 3-4 bitcoins that were left over in account. Maybe it's worth checking on?

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#283

Post by ManifestTendy »

ericmcer wrote: post #76
rjbwork wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not going to happen for a while yet. There is more money chasing fewer opportunities so we see equity asset inflation. This is exacerbated by increasing industrial centralization and the longest period of low interest rates on record, causing the average retail investors' only logical choice to be to put it in the market - be that index funds or individual "meme stocks". And if you don't? Inflation will slowly e…

It is kind of miserable though, either invest in a very shaky market, or watch inflation chew through your savings. It would be a fun game if working 40-50 hours a week wasn't the cost of a ticket to play.

I believe this is an argument for the coin. Pick your poison, really.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#284

Post by camjohnson26 »

jboog wrote: post #147
camjohnson26 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully those are meme stock arguments. A company can have all those things and be worth between 0 and 1 trillion, the question is whether the company is valued accurately by the markets and worth the price. Tesla is valued at what Apple was in 2019, but hasn’t made any profit ever without tax credits. AMD is at $100 billion, which seems high but could be worth it. Doesn’t matter if they mismanage cash and have…

No what you don't understand is that no one else in the market had caught on to the fact that AMD was the main competitor to Intel! If only we had known way back when!

And clearly Intel's products aren't working, can they even make processors?

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#285

Post by renewiltord »

nmfisher wrote: post #259
renewiltord wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an accredited investor and honestly, I'd be way wealthier today if I had just done the right thing and lied about being one a little earlier. I wish the requirements were intelligence/knowledge-based rather than resource-based but I suppose the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor and no one can tell so I actually failed it.

> the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor If the USA is anything like Australia, this is still illegal. So maybe not so much about "intelligence" as it is "willingness to break the law when it's unlikely you'll be found out". I suspect the latter strongly correlates with financial success more broadly, too.

Nah, no one punishes you over this because it's to protect you. The most high profile case is Chris Sacca. But he's way smarter than me so I'm willing to accept that he'll win games I can't play.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#286

Post by centimeter »

brandmeyer wrote: post #78

Hol' up. While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings , Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders. While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation l…

Parting a fool from his money is a socially beneficial activity.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#287

Post by nextaccountic »

dragontamer wrote: post #155
brandmeyer wrote: post #78

Hol' up. While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings , Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders. While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation l…

> How was selling more stock in that situation legal? They asked the bankruptcy court, and the bankruptcy court's job is to maximize value for the bondholders. Turns out that selling worthless stock (for money) is really good for the bankruptcy proceedings (getting maybe 70% of the money back instead of 60%). Then the SEC came in (whose job is to protect retail investors), and the SEC told them to knock-it-off. Diffe…

> They asked the bankruptcy court, and the bankruptcy court's job is to maximize value for the bondholders.

Perhaps the court can do this without violating the law? This is fraud.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#288

Post by chii »

sbierwagen wrote: post #215
brandmeyer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. No! I reject this rationale. Just because its in the domain of finance and business doesn't make it ethical. For example, you can't just disclose your way into arbitrary medical experiments on people. Regardless of how you rationalize the principles, it will end up exploiting the most vulnerable citizens. While I readily admit that the law does not forbid all forms of unethical behavior, I do believe that it shou…

>For example, you can't just disclose your way into arbitrary medical experiments on people. Why not? If the person checks the "medical experiments" box in return for $100k, are we saying they shouldn't get the money? People willingly trade increased risk of death for increased pay all the time. Should it be illegal to be a lumberjack, or to work the overnight shift at a 7/11?

But then we forbit selling yourself into slavery - regardless of the payment you receive. So there _must_ be a line somewhere.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#289

Post by chii »

Lazare wrote: post #207
brandmeyer wrote: post #78

Hol' up. While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings , Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders. While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation l…

1) US securities laws are very focused on disclosure and filling out the correct forms. Hertz did say the stock was (likely) worthless when they filled out the correct form to sell some stock. 2) People were buying (and selling) Hertz stock every day, before, during, and after Hertz's brief offering. If it should be illegal for Hertz to sell the stock, why should it be legal for anyone else to sell the stock? (The ob…

> If it should be illegal for Hertz to sell the stock, why should it be legal for anyone else to sell the stock?

Hertz wasn't selling existing stock, but were creating new stock. They cannot be equated to an existing shareholder selling his holdings.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#290

Post by ex3ndr »

perardi wrote: post #68
ex3ndr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get this about GME? It literally skyrocketed once Chewy team started to take over and transform company.

OK, what does that even mean? They are a physical store that sells physical games. Physical stores are in dire straits. Some new game consoles don’t even use physical games , namely the base PlayStation and Xbox. What do you even transform into? A dedicated amiibo shop? The future is pretty obviously download-only for games.

Just random though - turn them to a gaming cafe. I could see how from time to time I will join with my friends to play something old school way. For younger it is also cool - escape parents home.
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