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The Miseducation of America’s Elites

city-journal.org

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Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#21
post #19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I know for a fact this ideology is being pushed hard right now And yet you have ironically failed to furnish evidence. OP rightly observes that the article is riddled with anonymous hearsay, and published by a tax exempt lobbying group. For those who choose to read comments first, here's a taste of what you have to look forward to in the article: "says one of the fathers(...)'What he has a problem with is a moveme…

> OP rightly observes that the article is riddled with anonymous hearsay, and published by a tax exempt lobbying group Is the ideology of the Manhattan Institute your problem? Because there are endless left-wing tax exempt "lobbying" groups (aka any nonprofit in America that tries to advocate for policy change), so I'm not sure what groups you can possibly trust given your criteria.

My problem is with the anonymouse hearsay.

"America is a bad country" Who said this? Why can't the author quote them directly? Why should I believe this even happened?

Edit: Not that I have a dog in this fight, but while we're at it, can you point me in the direction of a reactionary/militant leftist 501(c)3? I have always assumed that all sorts of rich zealots were using these as as anonymous lobbying slush funds, or at least would be soon enough, but I have genuinely never seen a general leftist-interest one, and I'm intellectually curious. :)

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#22

Sweet. Unsourced claims in a magazine published by the Manhattan Institute. Well I'm convinced. https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Manhattan_Instit...

Thank you. I read the first paragraph and my eyes rolled. This must be a American conservative propaganda (the talking points are so trite and boring). Is this where the conservative intelligentsia is at these days? [The woke sjw boogie man is coming to mind control your kid at their elite school, then he will cancel you, they must be stopped at all costs!] Do people really read this trash?

This article was written by bari weiss who in no way a conservative or a propagandist. She is a pretty well respected and moderately well known journalist.

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#23

> Fluency in woke is an effective class marker and key for these princelings to retain status in university and beyond. While i have heard people issue the sentiment of this article, its hard to take anyone seriously when they use the term "woke". The word is only ever used in a derogatory manner, which is a give-away that the author has clear bias and agenda (as opposed to reporting on the parents and opinions thems…

Don Lemon encouraging us to 'Stay Woke' just a few days ago [1].

It's trending towards derogatory but still commonly used.

[1] https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/03/04/cnn_don_l...

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#25
The reaction to this article kind of says it all for me. Right leaning readers seem to accept the claims, although anonymous, because they have experience on the ground that would make them believe such claims. Left leaning readers refuse to accept the claims because they are anonymous and could easily be made up.

It's confirmation bias all the way down. I personally tend to lean more on the right here because I went to an "elite" institution and saw firsthand, plenty of times, the same kind of totalitarian ideological bullying and groupthink that the article describes.

I do think that the reaction to this article, and the many other articles like it, are a harbinger of the near-future breakup of the United States. There is simply no possible way this country can survive when the value systems are so opposed to each other.

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#26

Sweet. Unsourced claims in a magazine published by the Manhattan Institute. Well I'm convinced. https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Manhattan_Instit...

Thank you. I read the first paragraph and my eyes rolled. This must be a American conservative propaganda (the talking points are so trite and boring). Is this where the conservative intelligentsia is at these days? [The woke sjw boogie man is coming to mind control your kid at their elite school, then he will cancel you, they must be stopped at all costs!] Do people really read this trash?

Citing people's lived experiences as 'propaganda' is ridiculous, it says more about you than the content.

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#27

I've encountered this sort of ideology before in education. My plan is to send my children to Chinese public schools in Shanghai. They will live with relatives. They will obtain a better education, better peers, with none of this article's indoctrination at a cheaper cost. I will not risk my (white) children believing they are inferior to anyone else in academics. I do not trust the American education system to bring…

I think in general China could easily play a winning hand here by refusing to give into this nonsense. Not just in education, but in a corporate setting, too.

Honestly, it probably won't be such a bad thing for the world to have SOME country moving the ball forward on science and technology. Seems like the US is being increasingly enveloped by the ideology - see the recent "math is racist" campaigns.

Side note - it is hilarious to me that Dr. Seuss is apparently too harmful to be read by kids now, but it's totally fine for them to be exposed to explicit rappers like Travis Scott and Lil Yachty in their McMeals and cereals. Because "green eggs and ham" is more dangerous than "poppin pills is all we know" apparently...

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I read the first paragraph and my eyes rolled. This must be a American conservative propaganda (the talking points are so trite and boring). Is this where the conservative intelligentsia is at these days? [The woke sjw boogie man is coming to mind control your kid at their elite school, then he will cancel you, they must be stopped at all costs!] Do people really read this trash?

Citing people's lived experiences as 'propaganda' is ridiculous, it says more about you than the content.

Yeah. The thing that makes me believe this most of all is the fact that I have had very similar experiences in my education, and I too would be terrified to attach my real name to some of the experiences I have had. Sad times - I thought Biden would calm some of these people down but it seems to have emboldened them.

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#29

The reaction to this article kind of says it all for me. Right leaning readers seem to accept the claims, although anonymous, because they have experience on the ground that would make them believe such claims. Left leaning readers refuse to accept the claims because they are anonymous and could easily be made up. It's confirmation bias all the way down. I personally tend to lean more on the right here because I went…

The flaw in this line of thinking is that it's unreasonable to suggest this story is 'made up' or 'propaganda'.

It's more like: if this is just the experience of a tiny handful of people, well then it's a perspective but it's not important. If it's commonplace, then it's an issue.

There were major divisions in the nation in the past - remember that so many rejected desegregation in the 1960's. I think many progressives will think that we are now re-living those kinds of divisions, i.e. it's their turn to 'fight'.

The thing is, it's quite different this time. I don't believe that any movement here has history on their side.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

- Martin Luther King Jr.

This statement is no longer progressive, in fact, it's the hallmark of many social conservatives i.e. 'I don't see race' or 'I judge on the basis of character'.

It's the woke/intersectional progressive crowd who want to re-initiate racial awareness using the logic that 'people's racial experiences matter', which while I think has some merit, is also going to be deeply divisive.

MLK won. All the way from 1960 to even now, racial disparities have been shrinking (mostly). The vast, vast majority of Americans agree with MLK's statement, and consider it a virtue.

The 'New Progressive Radicals' may have a point to make, but the inherent divisiveness of the ideal, and the focus on race/gender above character etc. leads to a pop culture civil war, amplified by social media, it plays into our worst impulses including racism. I don't think history is going to favour this movement outright.

Re: The Miseducation of America’s Elites

#30

The reaction to this article kind of says it all for me. Right leaning readers seem to accept the claims, although anonymous, because they have experience on the ground that would make them believe such claims. Left leaning readers refuse to accept the claims because they are anonymous and could easily be made up. It's confirmation bias all the way down. I personally tend to lean more on the right here because I went…

>There is simply no possible way this country can survive when the value systems are so opposed to each other.

That strikes me as a rather hyperbolic take. It's rather like the Jordan Peterson vision of reality in which certain ideological shifts in the educational realm are portrayed as being a wholesale reworking of society in general rather than what they actually are -- namely, just some aspects of the life of schools, which don't actually do that much to change or affect anything in the power structures that overwhelmingly dominate the rest of life.

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