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Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

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Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#251

Post by fork1 »

dragontamer wrote: post #188
HPsquared wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people buying the shares are making the "true" valuation of the company, being the ones buying it.

Do you think the buyers of HTZGQ at $5.50 in June 2020 will be proven correct? Or do you think, that like most other bankrupt companies, HTZGQ will be worthless once these bankruptcy proceedings are done? The stock is almost certainly going to go to $0. That's just what happens as bankruptcies play out. If you disagree, you're welcome to toss your money into buying some HTZGQ yourself. ---------- The issue is that He…

Yeah, a lot of companies that enter bankruptcy end up with wiped shareholders and new owners in the shape of it's creditors. It's not really news.

Then if some idiots think it's not the case, and there is value, let them bet if they so want, they obviously know better than Hertz. Hertz only decided to issue shares when their share price went over the roof, driven by those same speculators.

As long as things are correctly disclosed ("our stock is worthless, but buy it if you want"), caveat emptor.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#252

Post by arcticbull »

mumblemumble wrote: post #242
ineedasername wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of companies are valued at more than 5x their assets. Tesla for example is valued at more than 10x their assets. Besides, immorality doesn't really enter into it. The SEC requires public filings to ensure investors can make informed decisions. The rest is up to the investor who presumably would be betting that the company's prospects will increase, at least partly as a result of avoiding bankruptcy an having e…

The difference here is that the company was already in the middle of chapter 11. So there is no "avoiding bankruptcy", that part has already happened. One common scenario for exiting chapter 11 is that you wipe out equity holders so that you can pay off your debts. (That's a major reason why stocks tend to get lower returns than bonds: less risk, less reward.) So, selling common stock like this in order to raise mone…

Airlines are in bankruptcy a few times a decade, give or take. Doesn't stop them haha.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#253

Post by kjrose »

Honestly when hertz pulled the selling more stock to suckers move I was shocked by the sheer ballsiness of the maneuver. Especially when they admitted that the stock would likely be worthless.

Honestly, this is one of those situations where a bunch of people took a gamble and lost hard. Hopefully it will serve as a lesson for next time.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#254

Post by Scoundreller »

kjrose wrote: post #253

Honestly when hertz pulled the selling more stock to suckers move I was shocked by the sheer ballsiness of the maneuver. Especially when they admitted that the stock would likely be worthless. Honestly, this is one of those situations where a bunch of people took a gamble and lost hard. Hopefully it will serve as a lesson for next time.

I think their buyers would have been the short coverers looking for an exit.

A single share could be bored and shorted multiple times. Not overnight, but with enough time, you can end up with more shares short than shares that exist.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#255

Post by rcurry »

brandmeyer wrote: post #78

Hol' up. While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings , Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders. While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation l…

> How was selling more stock in that situation legal?

“We are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price.”

- Margin Call, 2011

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#256

Post by marshmallow_12 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #245
marshmallow_12 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote Mark Twain (or someone) "The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math"

Presumably the math there is expected value, but does that even matter? Imagine two lotteries that each sell ten million $1 tickets, and will only sell one ticket per person. One has a jackpot of $7 million. The other has a jackpot of $15 million. Math would tell you there's a significant difference between the two, wouldn't it? But I would say the right answer is that the difference in payout doesn't matter. And you…

You overanalysed it. The math is simply that you are statistically unlikely to get your dollar back.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#257

Post by renewiltord »

icedchai wrote: post #243
renewiltord wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an accredited investor and honestly, I'd be way wealthier today if I had just done the right thing and lied about being one a little earlier. I wish the requirements were intelligence/knowledge-based rather than resource-based but I suppose the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor and no one can tell so I actually failed it.

I'm curious, what was your best investment as an accredited investor? (No need for a specific company, general info is fine.)

Nothing is liquid yet. Also, practically every Bay Area engineer is an accredited investor because they hit the income requirements. Many are more actively involved than I am.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#258

Post by prepend »

Judgmentality wrote: post #58
ludocode wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think this will happen. Do you mean you don't think they'll compete with Twitch, or you don't think they'll compete with Steam and Amazon? Personally I think investing in GME today is no different than investing in Blockbuster ten years ago. Competing with Steam is a terrible idea. EA tried it with Origin and despite having huge exclusive franchises, they're essentially throwing in the towel by abandoning t…

> Do you mean you don't think they'll compete with Twitch, or you don't think they'll compete with Steam and Amazon? I do not think Gamestop is going to compete with twitch. I will be very surprised if they do not try to compete with Steam.

This is just crazy though as GameStop has no demonstrated capabilities or plan to compete with Steam. They don’t make good software, they don’t have content or publishing experience.

I mean they can say they want to, so can McDonalds. But their plan is magical thinking and not sure why folks fall for this.

The worst but though is that they have a terrible reputation with gamers. Every gamer I know hates them. Some shop there like some tolerate Comcast, but they don’t have a fan base.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#259

Post by nmfisher »

renewiltord wrote: post #217
lupire wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"accredited investor" law is the "loose-law" you are talking about.

I'm an accredited investor and honestly, I'd be way wealthier today if I had just done the right thing and lied about being one a little earlier. I wish the requirements were intelligence/knowledge-based rather than resource-based but I suppose the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor and no one can tell so I actually failed it.

> the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor

If the USA is anything like Australia, this is still illegal. So maybe not so much about "intelligence" as it is "willingness to break the law when it's unlikely you'll be found out".

I suspect the latter strongly correlates with financial success more broadly, too.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#260

Post by jquery »

renewiltord wrote: post #217
lupire wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"accredited investor" law is the "loose-law" you are talking about.

I'm an accredited investor and honestly, I'd be way wealthier today if I had just done the right thing and lied about being one a little earlier. I wish the requirements were intelligence/knowledge-based rather than resource-based but I suppose the real test of intelligence was knowing that you can lie about being an accredited investor and no one can tell so I actually failed it.

Serious question: what can you do as an accredited investor that you can’t do otherwise? Why would you be way wealthier? PreIPO companies, sure, but where do you even trade that stuff?
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