Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Joy of using linux

minhajuddin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Joy of using linux

#21

Post by Ubersoldat »

mironathetin wrote: post #8

Well, this is also my experience with linux: many things you want to do just don't work out of the box. There is always (nearly) a way to do things, though. But if you really want to do work and not always fight against your tool of choice, linux is not the thing to use. For coding, I replaced it with Mac OS. This saves me 98% of the problems I had on linux. To be fair: I wouldn't know an out-of-the-box way to conver…

To compare Linux with MacOS (or Windows) you should buy also a computer MADE to run Linux. Please, go ahead and install MacOS (or Windows) in a bunch of HP Proliants or in a Sun Blade. How about in a Compaq nc6300? OK, you probably like better a Thinkpad X1. Maybe in your Netbook? How about in that old P3 you have at the basement collecting dust? Even better, why don't you install Lion on your old PPC iMac? Well, I have Linux running in ALL of those computers and ALL of them work pretty much "out-of-the-box".

Re: Joy of using linux

#22

Post by Derbasti »

Newky wrote: post #18
mironathetin wrote: post #8

Well, this is also my experience with linux: many things you want to do just don't work out of the box. There is always (nearly) a way to do things, though. But if you really want to do work and not always fight against your tool of choice, linux is not the thing to use. For coding, I replaced it with Mac OS. This saves me 98% of the problems I had on linux. To be fair: I wouldn't know an out-of-the-box way to conver…

I'm not trying to start an argument, but in regards to coding, I take your point completely if your talking about iOS development or something specific to Mac Programming, but if not, what exactly were the obstacles for development in Linux. I use Linux mainly because of its ease of use in terms of development. I would be interested in hearing your arguments for the Mac. My friend recently got a Mac, and unbeknown to…

You know, he could have inserted his installation DVD and installed it from there. Also, Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python, too, so I can't really see that Linux is at an advantage there.

After that, both Linux and Mac are Unix systems and have package managers that can install stuff (third party on Mac). Personally, I spend most of my time in Chrome, a terminal and Vim. On OSX. Because I like it that way. But I could certainly replicate that same development process in some Linux distro.

Also, many Linux applications work just fine on OSX but not the other way around. So there is some argument for choosing OSX. Also, all that basic stuff like connecting to networks, having MS Office, etc. just plain works better on OSX. But to each his own.

Re: Joy of using linux

#23

Post by Wickk »

Derbasti wrote: post #22
Newky wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but in regards to coding, I take your point completely if your talking about iOS development or something specific to Mac Programming, but if not, what exactly were the obstacles for development in Linux. I use Linux mainly because of its ease of use in terms of development. I would be interested in hearing your arguments for the Mac. My friend recently got a Mac, and unbeknown to…

You know, he could have inserted his installation DVD and installed it from there. Also, Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python, too, so I can't really see that Linux is at an advantage there. After that, both Linux and Mac are Unix systems and have package managers that can install stuff (third party on Mac). Personally, I spend most of my time in Chrome, a terminal and Vim. On OSX. Because I like it that way. Bu…

>Ubuntu ships without make, Ruby or Python Since when does Ubuntu ship without make and python? Python 2.X has been included in standard installations for quite a few releases now. I also can't remember the last time I had to manually install make.

Re: Joy of using linux

#24

Post by binarymax »

edoloughlin wrote: post #19
roel_v wrote: post #2

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compellin…

He managed to find free, command-line tools to read a proprietary data format. This means he could potentially wrap a simple script around them and automate the process if he needed to do it on a regular basis. Would this be free & scriptable on Windows? It's been a while since I had to do anything comparable on Win, but I think he would have had to buy MS Office (Pro?) with VB or Visual C++ to do it.

You could probably script it with Powershell and a bit of .NET

Re: Joy of using linux

#25

Post by roel_v »

waterhouse wrote: post #9
roel_v wrote: post #2

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compellin…

How about this story? "Something goes wrong and shit doesn't work. At this point, we would expect to be completely stymied. But no, instead, we manage with a bit of googling and dicking around to fix it!" The comparison isn't with opening this particular file on different operating systems; it's with how you can recover when shit goes wrong (which does happen now and then on all operating systems).

From that story one doesn't draw the conclusion 'Linux is awesome'. At best, it would be 'Google is so cool, I allows me to fix things'.

Let's face it, this 'article' was utter fanboyism, and does not exhibit any form of proof that Linux is better than whatever.

(I've run Linux since 1998 and I do prefer it for some tasks, like server tasks. I have many years of experience and am well aware of its strengths and weaknesses. Interoperability with the files that 'regular' computer users use is not one of those strengths).

Re: Joy of using linux

#26

Post by deno »

My experience opening .mdb file on Linux:

0. Make sure Kexi is installed.

1. Click on it.

It's numbered from 0, because Microsoft Access isn't a standard part of Windows either.

Re: Joy of using linux

#27

Post by Hawramani »

flocial wrote: post #13

Linux users are mostly lost without Google, myself included. It gets you into a yak-shaving mindset. Ditto with Emacs. If I can stop fiddling I'm sure I'll be more productive.

"The same technology that simplifies life by providing more functions in each device also complicates life by making the device harder to learn, harder to use. This is the paradox of technology." -Donald A. Norman, The Design of Everyday Things.

Re: Joy of using linux

#28

Post by roel_v »

raghava wrote: post #12
waterhouse wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this story? "Something goes wrong and shit doesn't work. At this point, we would expect to be completely stymied. But no, instead, we manage with a bit of googling and dicking around to fix it!" The comparison isn't with opening this particular file on different operating systems; it's with how you can recover when shit goes wrong (which does happen now and then on all operating systems).

Yes. I recollect a similar situation when I volunteered for a Linux fest. ( http://wiki.sampada.net/GNU_Linux_Install_Fest ) The venue could only accommodate 50 odd people but > 300 had registered on the eve. We needed to update all that after 10:30 am seats may be full and we might not be able to accommodate all, at 10 pm. Me and another friend of mine wrote a simple script to fetch mobile numbers of registrants, an…

Again, not an example of any form of superiority of Linux. 30 seconds of google shows us http://www.oreillynet.com/wireless/2003/10/10/sms.html , allowing you to (with a free tool from Microsoft) do the same. Oh, and you can do it over Bluetooth and infrared, in 2003.

Have you ever tried to get infrared data connections to work on Linux? I have, and I can tell you that it takes many, many times longer on Linux just to figure out how it should work (in my case, infinitely longer, since I never did get it to work).

I'm not here to say that one is better than the other, just that the examples here do not prove one or the other, or not even give a hint in the direction. They're all completely trivial things that can be done by a competent user on any OS.

Re: Joy of using linux

#30

Post by roel_v »

edoloughlin wrote: post #19
roel_v wrote: post #2

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but his argument is basically 'Linux couldn't open a file that everybody else could, but by dicking around with random half-assed documented tools we could do it anyway!'. Basically, 'we managed to do something that is absolutely trivial for everybody else by jumping through hoops and spending a bunch of time on it to do it the convoluted way.'. Hmm right, not exactly a compellin…

He managed to find free, command-line tools to read a proprietary data format. This means he could potentially wrap a simple script around them and automate the process if he needed to do it on a regular basis. Would this be free & scriptable on Windows? It's been a while since I had to do anything comparable on Win, but I think he would have had to buy MS Office (Pro?) with VB or Visual C++ to do it.

It would be completely trivial on Windows since mdb files are accessed with the Jet database engine, one would set up a database connection string just like when accessing an Oracle or SQL Server database through ODBC and then use whatever database api is available in one's language of choice (vbscript, javascript (both of them available as 'standard' cscript engines on any installation of Windows since 2001), powershell, visual basic, C++, ...) to extract the data.

Or, one would google for 10 seconds like I just did and find for example http://timothychenallen.blogspot.com/2007/08/vb-convert-any-... which does that for you and converts the file into a csv file, and then process it like other csv files. No Office or Visual Basic required.

So his claim 'this would have taken a couple of hours' (about converting the mdb to csv on Windows) is a load of bollocks and FUD. He didn't even search for it I'd wager, and let his ideologically myopic view cloud his pragmatic judgement. I'm not sure why people are defending this sort of juvenile fanboyism, it's drivel like this that makes the rest of us serious users who propose Linux in situations where it actually is better than the alternatives look like nutcases.

Post reply on HN