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Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

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Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#61

Post by amanaplanacanal »

gruez wrote: post #47
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could lease the watertight container to you for a deposit, and when you return the watertight container to them, they clean it and re-use it.

Multiple jurisdictions have bottle deposit schemes, which operate similar to what you described. It's not with reusable bottles though, presumably because the cost of transporting and cleaning the glass bottles outweighs the savings from reuse.

The roadside trash where I live is never packaging with a deposit attached to it. This seems to work really well, as there are enough homeless and poor people willing to collect that stuff.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#62

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

dragontamer wrote: post #50
simias wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to trust your restaurant you should also probably trust Coca Cola. Not because I think Coca Cola is more honest, but do you imagine the PR nightmare if employee #832453 captures a video on their smartphone of dirty bottles being reused? This type of fraud/malpractice is much more likely to be seen in small restaurants with little oversight and loose processes that at a multi-million dollar bottling…

The issue isn't Coca Cola forgetting to wash reusable bottles. Its Street Vendor #455. Who is refilling reusable bottles and selling them to his customers. I'm talking about people sitting with coolers and ice, selling $1 soda or $1 water.

I mean how do you trust that the shops you buy plastic bottles of coke from aren’t getting them from some dodgy counterfeit factory? Or draining the bottles with a syringe and replacing the contents?

I think you’re looking for a problem that doesn’t exist in the real world.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#63

Post by diggernet »

dragontamer wrote: post #34
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could lease the watertight container to you for a deposit, and when you return the watertight container to them, they clean it and re-use it.

What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? A restaurant will wash their stuff to make sure that you're a return customer. But a big advantage of once-opened / once-disposed containers is that I can suddenly trust random street vendors with no relationship to me.

What makes you think random street vendor will be refilling it? Back when you could buy sodas in glass bottles in grocery stores, you could take the empty bottles (even ones from random street vendor) back to any grocery store, and they'd go back to the bottling plant to be sterilized and refilled. It was very common, and yes, people trusted random street vendors, because the bottles were sealed at the bottling plant.

Really, if you are so concerned about random street vendors, you should consider that it is not hard at all to open a plastic soda bottle without breaking the seal ring on the cap, refill the bottle, and put the cap back on.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#64

Post by SkyPuncher »

dharmab wrote: post #42
choward wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just delete your account at this point. No reason to log into an account just to make it easier for Facebook to track you around the internet.

I keep an account for three reasons: - To prevent identity theft by someone creating an account in my name. - To access some local event planning that only happens on Facebook, e.g. local motorsport competition/HPDE events - To access Facebook Marketplace

Facebook marketplace is literally the only reason I still have a FB account

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#65

Post by esperent »

choward wrote: post #30
esperent wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same, but I unfollowed everyone - literally everyone, including my family. Blissful peace! The obvious result of this was that I realized nothing changed when I did this, except for less useless info entering my eyes, and I gradually stopped using FB almost entirely. Now I check if there are any interesting events on every week or two, and that's it (although I still use messenger - attempts to get friends…

Just delete your account at this point. No reason to log into an account just to make it easier for Facebook to track you around the internet.

No, it's still the only way that people in my area share info about events, and I like finding out about them so the account is still useful to me.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#67

Post by sufehmi »

sufehmi wrote: post #66

"Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do" "There is always an algorithm. The default one promotes rage, controversy and misinformation" This guy is a massive idiot and he doesn't know it yet.

it's worth preserving as a warning to future generations.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210309163058/https://news.find...

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#68

Post by amai »

The problem is not the filter bubble. The problem is who controls the filter bubble. If I can control my own filter bubble I'm fine with that. If some BigTech company or some Government is controlling my filter bubble I call that censorship.

Shameless plug: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/filterbubble/amgno...

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#69

Post by dash2 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #58
dash2 wrote: post #5

On the subject of "should we blame algorithms", here is some nice new research with an elegant field experiment, which suggests that yes, Facebook's algorithm does lead to filter bubbles: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653388

Isn't that a distraction from the real issue? If people want filter bubbles (for themselves but not others like usual) it doesn't matter who made a particular one. People don't want spam or crap they will never agree with and want stuff they are interested in.

I think it's non-obvious that Facebook's only following consumer demand here. People are on FB for lots of reasons, including network effects that are hard to change, and the company probably has a lot of leeway to alter its bubble without changing that. Indeed, they've already made many changes.

There's also a lot of possible variation in the strength of the bubble. Suppose I click on "Fox News". Should FB feed me more right wing news? Probably: as you say, people want news they are interested in, perhaps for good reasons. Should it try feeding me more extreme stuff, to see if I'm interested in QAnon? Maybe not, but it's easy to imagine how recommender algorithms could end up doing that.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#70

Post by dash2 »

dang wrote: post #55
dash2 wrote: post #5

On the subject of "should we blame algorithms", here is some nice new research with an elegant field experiment, which suggests that yes, Facebook's algorithm does lead to filter bubbles: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653388

That would make a great submission in its own right.

Done! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26411818
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