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Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

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Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#51

Post by clairity »

scythe wrote: post #38
umvi wrote: post #8

I created my own bubble on Facebook. People would write or share these inflammatory political posts I disagreed with, but I just knew if I commented it would cause contention (which I wanted to avoid since these are my friends), so instead I "unfollowed". A few dozen unfollows later, and I'm now magically in a bubble where my feed is devoid of inflammatory political posts! I did the same thing with reddit. Unsubscrib…

It takes two to tango. Or maybe it's just a two-way street. Sure, I decide who to interact with. But I make that decision based on how they post. They post, in turn, based on how other people react to their posts. About half of the things on my FB feed never get a single like or comment. I'm not sure why I still post them. Some of my misses: "Judge permanently dismisses charges against [Breonna Taylor's boyfriend]":…

> “It's very misleading to ignore the influence of the environment when considering how people choose whom to interact with.”

yah, that’s a form of the fundamental attribution error, a pretty common error in any discussion. we won’t get more civil discussions anywhere without systemic changes that lure us further into such errors by design.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#52

Post by ceejayoz »

dragontamer wrote: post #49
ceejayoz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? The same assurances I have that they didn't let a rat piss in it at the factory the first time around; inspections and safety regulations. I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. I have absolutely zero concern that they forgot to wash them between uses.

Reusable containers means that the container wasn't necessarily filled by Coca Cola. It could have been the street-vendor refilling glasses. That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. --------------- > I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. But you don't get your reusable milk from a street vendor. You trust your deliveryman, you trust the company they work for. You hav…

> That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola.

My reusable milk bottles come with a small plastic top that's recyclable and functions as an anti-tamper seal. No reason you couldn't do the same with soda; plastic Coke bottles already have this.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#53

Post by dragontamer »

ceejayoz wrote: post #52
dragontamer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reusable containers means that the container wasn't necessarily filled by Coca Cola. It could have been the street-vendor refilling glasses. That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. --------------- > I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. But you don't get your reusable milk from a street vendor. You trust your deliveryman, you trust the company they work for. You hav…

> That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. My reusable milk bottles come with a small plastic top that's recyclable and functions as an anti-tamper seal. No reason you couldn't do the same with soda; plastic Coke bottles already have this.

I once bought a soda from the Philippines. They went to the back, and pulled out a reusable glass bottle with a straw in it. That's what got me thinking about this. I didn't see them unseal the bottle.

Unless you buy a sealed bottle to begin with, you don't really know if it was reused. I admit that you have a good point: if the glass bottle had an appropriate one-time seal on it, that would be proof enough for me.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#55

Post by dang »

dash2 wrote: post #5

On the subject of "should we blame algorithms", here is some nice new research with an elegant field experiment, which suggests that yes, Facebook's algorithm does lead to filter bubbles: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653388

That would make a great submission in its own right.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#56

Post by dandellion »

dragontamer wrote: post #34
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could lease the watertight container to you for a deposit, and when you return the watertight container to them, they clean it and re-use it.

What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? A restaurant will wash their stuff to make sure that you're a return customer. But a big advantage of once-opened / once-disposed containers is that I can suddenly trust random street vendors with no relationship to me.

You can trust random vendors because the container is sealed, and once open it can't be sealed again. Many "disposable containers" that we use can be filled with tap water and used again if you want.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#57

Post by codyb »

esperent wrote: post #21
umvi wrote: post #8

I created my own bubble on Facebook. People would write or share these inflammatory political posts I disagreed with, but I just knew if I commented it would cause contention (which I wanted to avoid since these are my friends), so instead I "unfollowed". A few dozen unfollows later, and I'm now magically in a bubble where my feed is devoid of inflammatory political posts! I did the same thing with reddit. Unsubscrib…

I did the same, but I unfollowed everyone - literally everyone, including my family. Blissful peace! The obvious result of this was that I realized nothing changed when I did this, except for less useless info entering my eyes, and I gradually stopped using FB almost entirely. Now I check if there are any interesting events on every week or two, and that's it (although I still use messenger - attempts to get friends…

Did this as well a few years ago. Was a pain in the ass. Never log in anymore and use my messenger account to communicate one on one with friends occasionally.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#58

Post by Nasrudith »

dash2 wrote: post #5

On the subject of "should we blame algorithms", here is some nice new research with an elegant field experiment, which suggests that yes, Facebook's algorithm does lead to filter bubbles: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653388

Isn't that a distraction from the real issue? If people want filter bubbles (for themselves but not others like usual) it doesn't matter who made a particular one. People don't want spam or crap they will never agree with and want stuff they are interested in.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#59

Post by Nasrudith »

uihududhmd wrote: post #48
sokoloff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Litterbug is a real thing though, IMO. I don't want Coke to sell me a handful of Coke; I want it in a watertight container. If, when I'm done with that container, I throw it on the ground, how is that Coke's fault? Same question for a fast-food wrapper. Do we think McDonalds should serve its food loose?

I will occasionally spend time picking up litter when I go on walks. The waste I find, in order of volume, is primarily: 1) Food packaging 2) Automobile detritus 3) Construction material 2 is because parts fall off of people's cars. 3 is because construction material will fall out of the pickup truck beds that are used by construction workers. But the food packaging waste is dropped by people. If we accept the UX pri…

Disney found the best way to reduce littering is very frequent trashcan placement but that has practicality issues to roll out enmasse. Making the litter less bad is harm-reduction.

Re: Algorithms don't cause filter bubbles, people do

#60

Post by amanaplanacanal »

simmerup wrote: post #37
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I created my own bubble on Facebook. Everyone does. There's nothing wrong with it. People at the coffee shops or the pubs were often people with similar interests. The problem is that we exited the culture wars in around 2009. We went into societal crisis. For the next 10-15 years or so we will be looking for the collapse of the crisis. The funny thing is that people still think it's the culture wars. Especially the…

This comment is a great example of something produced by an online bubble. I'm sure if you talked like this in real life most people on your street would have no idea what you're talking about, because you're referencing niche ideas from niche internet subcommunities. It's a problem because it alienates you from your irl community

This seems spot on. I couldn’t tell what they were talking about, except the part at the end about gun control, which I disagreed with. Plenty of democrats own and like guns.
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