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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#361

Post by matz1 »

akudha wrote: post #344
matz1 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why don't you publish all your purchase info online? Along with where you bought them, what time, how etc? While you are at it, also publish your travel info - including mode of travel, time of travel, source, destination... Yes I prefer that for everyone (not just me), including people in government, so that I don't have to worry about hiding the information. Hiding the information has its associated cost. Transpar…

I prefer that for everyone I don't understand why you should decide for others? If you want to put all of your info online, that is your choice. If I don't want to put my info online, that is my choice.

Because otherwise it will create power imbalance that will put me at disadvantages, other know about me but I don't know about other.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#362

Post by mytailorisrich »

kalleboo wrote: post #287
Grustaf wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing is still a crime, so there is no need to have direct access to your account. At the very least you would owe the store for what you stole, just like if you're late on an electricity bill. You essentially can't escape that without emigrating.

I want to add a note to people who aren't familiar - Sweden has a government debt collector[0]. Unlike the US where I'l told you can mostly dodge private debts and it just becomes a massive nuisance and credit nightmare, in Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Enforcement_Authority

> Sweden the government will actually garnish your salary and repossess your stuff for private debts.*

It's called "attachment of earnings" in the UK there is no special agency for that, it's just a court order sent to the debtor employer.

This also exists in most US states, I believe it's often called "wage garnishment" there.

Repossession or seizure of property also exists in the US and the UK (and indeed most countries). Here in the UK there's even a TV show about that, with the cool name of "The Sheriffs are coming"...

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#363

Post by adamcstephens »

elindbe3 wrote: post #201
adamcstephens wrote: post #3

So how will the people who would have worked in a shop like this, afford to shop for food? In Sweden this probably isn’t as big of an issue, but not every country is as socially conscious.

Is your point that there should never be a job displacing technology or that retail workers are a special class that should be protected from automation?

My point is that our fellow citizens deserve dignity of work and an ability to feed themselves. This is but one example of automation displacing workers, but there are plenty of other examples that also include non automation related job eliminations.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#364

Post by proverbialbunny »

random_upvoter wrote: post #104

I worked in a supermarket for a while and there was plenty of old people who came to that shop almost daily just to interact with another human being.

It sounds like you guys could use a YMCA or community center catering to these types. My grandmother was lonely so I convinced her to go to a YMCA for exercise reasons and she made a bunch of friends.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#365

Post by grep_name »

crocodiletears wrote: post #238
random_upvoter wrote: post #104

I worked in a supermarket for a while and there was plenty of old people who came to that shop almost daily just to interact with another human being.

There's an interchangeable, overpriced, soulless gas-station chain on nearly every street corner in my town. When I fill up my tank at any one of them, I'm forced to listen to the sound of 9+ pumps puke out celebrity-gossip, advertainment pieces, and PSAs telling me about the coronavirus. You can't mute them anymore. Inside, the shelves are lined with nearly identical selections of overpriced merchandise. I could be…

> You can't mute them anymore

Just for the record, I've found I can still mute them if I do the right combo of button presses.

Most of these pumps in my state have a column on either side of the screen of four or five unlabeled buttons. If I press the left side top to bottom (usually by running my finger straight down the line) on the left column, then the right, then the left, that shuts up 90% of them in my area.

Still sucks though

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#366

Post by Ericson2314 »

- Retail jobs suck, so this is good.

- warehouses and public dispensaries are content-address-based networking for the physical world.

- I don't really care about purchases being deanonymized because money itself a public good.

- I do care about the private sector having the data, because they will surely do terrible things with it.

Back to the networking analogy, the post is classic local-address-based networking for the physical realm. Just as we have a state-run post service utility, we should have a state-run warehouse-and-store utility.

Even all you free market types: the point is of the free market is that the transacting agents are independent, not that the market itself is. Running the marketplace and goods distribution utility as a public good is perfect fine "market socialism".

The only thing to be mindful of is that there is a standard and fair procedure for new sellers to have their goods stocked and distributed to bootstrap the demand.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#367

Post by renewiltord »

JasonFruit wrote: post #245
tpmx wrote: post #202

The BankID service seems to trip up many people here. Swedish residents have a personal identity number issued at birth or immigration. Format: YYYYMMDD-NNNN. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity_number_(Swed... BankID is a service run by the Swedish banks that interfaces with the banks, individuals and third parties (like this chain of unmanned stores). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID T…

> There is growing awareness that this service should not be run by private companies/banks. At risk of sounding snarky, I'm growing in awareness that the anonymous nature of paper money and coin had a lot of advantages. I would be unhappy if the only option for groceries in my area required me to strongly identify myself to shop there.

Well, previously "no shop for you", now "no shop for you". So no big change for you really. No net decrease in happiness for you and a net increase in happiness for others.

This is a Pareto optimal action.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#368

Post by kzrdude »

sailingparrot wrote: post #15
alexf95 wrote: post #2

Ok but what if I wanted to shop without a smartphone, or don't own one? Don't get me wrong this is great for the current situation but like all things it doesn't only have good things about it.

From a business point of view you obvisously don't need to be accessible to 100% of potential customers to be viable. People without smartphones are probably less Shops without access ramps lose probably more customers, and yet there are plenty of them.

However, a shop without access ramp might be illegal (in Sweden), while no regulation exists for phone requirements.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#369

Post by renewiltord »

sethammons wrote: post #258
kqr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One implicit benefit of the self-service checkouts is that there's often one line for multiple machines. Any student of queuing theory will know how much this reduces waiting time compared to the one queue per cashier that's otherwise common.

This one gets me every time. I’ve only ever seen a couple super markets or stores implement this for human-operated check out stations. Ross has this, and Best Buy used to during the holidays.

Can't stand Ross in downtown SF for this reason. You get placed in the same queue as the high-hagglers who have nineteen dozen coupons and constantly argue with the checkout agents. They then clog up all available slots.

At least at Safeway I can spot the kind of person who looks like they value their time and it'll usually go faster.

I'll literally never shop at Ross again because it takes forever to exit their damned queue.

The model works better at Trader Joe's in SF where it's mostly people who value their time. You can then be confident all the counters won't be used by slow people.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#370

Post by tasogare »

sokoloff wrote: post #165
tasogare wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value the self-scan systems have for the shop owners is not in automation but the fact the work is reported on customer, with of course no price reduction. That should be forbidden. I boycott those systems and wait for the human clerk to do his job, this way a little of the money made by the shop is redistributed.

No price reduction as compared to what? Maybe all the prices would be 0.5% higher if all the checkout was human-only? At the end of the day, the customer is paying for most everything in the shop. (They're the one bringing the money into the system. There may be a small amount of payment for placement or other advertising, or financing via invoices, but the vast majority of money coming into the shop is coming from c…

It should be forbidden because it makes people work illegally (because of a lack of contract and pay). In France a restaurant was fined by the work inspection because they asked their customers to give plates back. Using the same logic and existing laws, a shop shouldn’t be allowed to make its customers work for it.
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