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Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

toastytech.com

61–70 of 85 posts

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#61

Ha ha this reminds me of the first website I made. It was a site about Green Day. Of course, I built it on angelfire and it was chock full of gifs and midi music playing in the background. A lot of nostalgia seeing this.

If you feel like stepping back in time, check out a game called Hypnospace Outlaw. You play a moderator surfing around an alternate 90's like web space, investigating copyright, abuse, and other stuff. That gets that whole feel from when anyone could post up a webpage.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#62

"In conclusion, people are finally beginning to understand the hard way: Web Browsers really make poor client application runtimes for all but the most basic of things. ActiveX is a security nightmare and counter to making cross-platform applications. The web is a constantly changing and evolving standard separate from Microsoft or any specific operating system, as such implementing an application for just one specif…

Today, to say the web is a “bad” runtime is to ignore the preferences of hundreds of thousands of companies. It may be true, but only along some metric that apparently nobody cares about. Maybe no one listens to this viewpoint because it’s wrong. The web is a fine runtime, not perfect, but solves a lot of the problems that matter (like distribution and cross-platform support). In the 90s, this was a different story, reflected by the industry’s and consumers’ overwhelming preference for native and terminal-based applications.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth remembering that Flash was in fact extremely successful. I think we’d still be using it today if not for some combination of (1) Steve Jobs and (2) Adobe mismanagement. People say Flash was bloated but try running Slack on 2008-era hardware and let me know how it goes. And there’s no reason Flash couldn’t have been adapted to use responsive breakpoints and such for mobile friendliness.

Slack and other ill-optimized Electron apps are not great, but Flash was far worse, at least in my experience. With Flash a single banner ad in some tab you forgot you had open could consume half or more of your G4/G5/C2D, whipping your fans into a frenzy and roasting your lap (if using a laptop). Slack, etc are a detriment in terms of heat and battery life too, but not to such an extreme extent and at least you're g…

Computers are easily a thousand times more powerful than they were in the year 2000, and Electron apps still cook my thighs. They use more RAM than my computer had hard disk space.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#65

"In conclusion, people are finally beginning to understand the hard way: Web Browsers really make poor client application runtimes for all but the most basic of things. ActiveX is a security nightmare and counter to making cross-platform applications. The web is a constantly changing and evolving standard separate from Microsoft or any specific operating system, as such implementing an application for just one specif…

To this day I detest sites that require javascript, inject tens or hundreds of MB into cache, and make ridiculous demands of rendering.

At least they don’t leave unremovable or untraceable binaries, configurations, and databases in your system directories and registry.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#66

"In conclusion, people are finally beginning to understand the hard way: Web Browsers really make poor client application runtimes for all but the most basic of things. ActiveX is a security nightmare and counter to making cross-platform applications. The web is a constantly changing and evolving standard separate from Microsoft or any specific operating system, as such implementing an application for just one specif…

I work in defense and our stuff only runs with Internet explorer and Java applets. Requirements were written in the early 2000s and the product is still not ready to ship.

This comment is legitimately terrifying.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#67
"And as if forcing IE on all Windows users wasn't bad enough, Microsoft forced Apple to bundle IE for Mac as their default browser instead of Netscape. If Apple refused, Microsoft would discontinue MS-Office for Mac. Steve Jobs was loudly BOOED as he announced that IE would be the default browser."

https://youtu.be/WxOp5mBY9IY?t=142

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#68
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, "DHTML" / programmatic manipulation of the DOM was just invented in 1996 and eventually ended up being the envisioned successful client application runtime implemented across browser versions and runtimes. Now, of course with the Chromium hegemony we have an old-is-new-again set of problems on the web, but I do think that for a time, people _did_ listen to this advice and stopped writing applications for…

It’s worth remembering that Flash was in fact extremely successful. I think we’d still be using it today if not for some combination of (1) Steve Jobs and (2) Adobe mismanagement. People say Flash was bloated but try running Slack on 2008-era hardware and let me know how it goes. And there’s no reason Flash couldn’t have been adapted to use responsive breakpoints and such for mobile friendliness.

I agree, I think the two things that killed Flash were "Steve Jobs" (aka - a lack of foresight around the explosion of the mobile market and no competitive offering in the space), and the continued treatment of security as a technical debt item rather than a differentiating purchase distinguisher that buyers were actually concerned about. That is, I don't think Adobe correctly recognized that corporate buyers would start buying Intranet applications that were not built on Flash/Flex specifically due to security concerns.

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#69
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me you're getting downvoted which signifies that people don't think you're adding to the conversation Is this a form of denialism by hardcore "I-Hate-Javascript"ers? I would like to add that I absolutely hate the subset of modern websites that choose to be slow, but I think the parent is completely right. If we keep making it hard to use useful applications across platforms, then we're going to co…

>which signifies that people don't think you're adding to the conversation // Point of fact: pg, the founder of HN endorsed downvoting for disagreement much to my chagrin.

I think the original wording suggested he accepted it since it's going to be done anyway. I actually think he's right, see Reddit

Re: Internet Explorer is evil (1996)

#70
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A factoid is either a false statement presented as a fact, or a true but brief or trivial item of news or information. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid

Keep scrolling! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid#Versus_factlet

The proverbial ship had sailed on this one. Factlet would be a conspicuous alternative.

Favor the meaning people actually use and let the history of factoid be an interesting factoid.

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