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Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

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Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#71

Post by syshum »

Judgmentality wrote: post #19
tacheiordache wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed nothing lasts forever but TSLA at least has something to show while GME's business is passé. TSLA is overpriced but at the moment it crashed and will jump back to new heights. Why not take advantage of the notoriety and make a gain yourself?

I think it's obvious that I am holding a substantial amount of GME right now, and I think I should disclose that. Ryan Cohen, the guy who founded Chewy, is on the board for GME and leading an initiative to transform Gamestop into an e-commerce store. In other words he wants to compete directly with Steam, and while many don't realize it yet, Amazon. And this is one of the only people in history who has successfully b…

Does twitch even stream games anymore? ;)

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#72

Post by thaumasiotes »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36
croes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most stocks BTC's value depends on the buyers hope of a rise of the value. Buy low and sell high. For the original function of stocks, support a company and get a share of the profit, you are right about BTC.

That’s not really an accurate comparison. Stocks are ownership in a company, which is still subject to all of the realities of operating a company. We can’t simply continue trading Hertz stock as a speculative gamble when the company goes under. Yes, cycles of hype and supply and demand do distort stock prices, but it’s still a capital allocation market. GameStop can choose to sell shares into the hot market, much as…

> We can’t simply continue trading Hertz stock as a speculative gamble when the company goes under.

What? Why not?

Not only can we continue to trade stock in a defunct corporation, we do. Take a look over here: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/85889867_imperial-india...

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#73

Post by syshum »

waprin wrote: post #30
Judgmentality wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's obvious that I am holding a substantial amount of GME right now, and I think I should disclose that. Ryan Cohen, the guy who founded Chewy, is on the board for GME and leading an initiative to transform Gamestop into an e-commerce store. In other words he wants to compete directly with Steam, and while many don't realize it yet, Amazon. And this is one of the only people in history who has successfully b…

Competing with Twitch is not realistic and I’m surprised you think it’s bad. Facebook and Microsoft have both spent huge sums of money trying to and failed. And both those companies have deep engineering talent which GameStop does not and it will not be trivial to compete with those companies for engineers. Plus livestream is just really expensive in terms of compute and network costs. Finally and most importantly, T…

>> Facebook and Microsoft have both spent huge sums of money trying to and failed.

That does not mean it is not possible, it is not shocking to me that large institutions like Facebook and MS could not compete even with their deep pockets.

you seem to have conflated Money with creativity, and/or vision.

it will not be a Microsoft of Facebook that will topple twitch or you tube, it will be a startup of some kind that is completely removed from Corporate culture and the extreme chains on innovation that large companies have

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#74

Post by scsilver »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #46
unethical_ban wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD isn't a meme stock - I knew it was going to be a safe bet when it was at 5, but didn't have money to do anything with it. It is guaranteed to exist, as it is the only x86 competitor to Intel, and IIRC their x86 license is non-transferable. It is nvidia's only main competitor. It does its job pretty well. Is it a blue chip in terms of stability? Clearly it is a bit more volatile. But it isn't dying anytime soon.

Respectfully those are meme stock arguments. A company can have all those things and be worth between 0 and 1 trillion, the question is whether the company is valued accurately by the markets and worth the price. Tesla is valued at what Apple was in 2019, but hasn’t made any profit ever without tax credits. AMD is at $100 billion, which seems high but could be worth it. Doesn’t matter if they mismanage cash and have…

This is starting to feel like a moral crusade when that investment reasoning is consided meme/speculative arguments. I know retirement planners who manage 200m in asse6s who have been in business for 30+ years who look at the same reasonings as that. You cant really find an undervalued stop without some sort of assumptions. Might as well just buy an index fund.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#75

Post by superbcarrot »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #47

It's not worth discussing BTC, TSLA, GME, or HTZ. That is missing the forest for the trees. The degradation of even the appearance of an orderly market is the story. The money movement (volume of excess trades X magnitude of price change) seems out of reach of unleveraged retail. Faith in private and public institutions is justifiably poor, but also under organized attack. This is going to end badly for everyone, exc…

Seriously, what are the possible outcomes (positive or negative) that we can see play out? By what mechanisms can the currently inflated markets end and how will that impact the rest of the economy?

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#76

Post by ericmcer »

rjbwork wrote: post #40
systemvoltage wrote: post #33

I want us to get back to reality and fundamentals. These days it feels like the entire fabric of society is falling apart.

It's not going to happen for a while yet. There is more money chasing fewer opportunities so we see equity asset inflation. This is exacerbated by increasing industrial centralization and the longest period of low interest rates on record, causing the average retail investors' only logical choice to be to put it in the market - be that index funds or individual "meme stocks". And if you don't? Inflation will slowly e…

It is kind of miserable though, either invest in a very shaky market, or watch inflation chew through your savings. It would be a fun game if working 40-50 hours a week wasn't the cost of a ticket to play.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#77

Post by ludocode »

elif wrote: post #44
Judgmentality wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, people are betting on what they believe (or throwing away their money for the lulz). I genuinely, no bullshit, think TSLA is more irrational than GME, and has been for years. I put my money where my mouth is and I'm up 5x in 2 weeks. I know it won't last, but hey TSLA is crashing too. Nothing lasts forever.

TSLA is crashing because TSLA is not worth more than the rest of the top 10 manufacturers combined, as their market cap would suggest. Other notable differences include actively building the largest and most advanced factories on every major continent, disrupting the entire automobile industry such that even jaguar is going full electric by 2025, mainstreaming self-driving, and cutting the costs of residential solar…

> actively building the largest and most advanced factories on every major continent

They are not the most advanced factories, not even close. Tesla uses much more human labor per vehicle than its competitors; the "alien dreadnought" never materialized. "Toyota remains well ahead of Tesla in terms of manufacturing efficiency, producing more vehicles per employee, while utilizing its fixed assets and inventory more effectively":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/02/11/co...

> disrupting the entire automobile industry such that even jaguar is going full electric by 2025

The industry shift towards electric vehicles is because it's finally becoming profitable to make them. This is largely due to a dramatic reduction in battery costs which is driven by R&D for smartphones, not cars. Personally I don't believe Tesla has much to do with it.

> mainstreaming self-driving

They are mainstreaming dangerous driver assistance technologies well before they are ready because they've been pre-selling "full self driving" for years. They are nowhere close to completing an autonomous cross-country drive, something they promised would be done five years ago. Waymo is far ahead of Tesla on self-driving technology.

> cutting the costs of residential solar in half

I'm not sure there's even any point in arguing this because solar is an insignificant fraction of their business. They are a car manufacturer, nothing more. But in my personal opinion, I think the SolarCity acquisition was a fraudulent bailout of Musk's family, the solar shingles were mostly a sham, and Tesla has no significant proprietary solar technology at all.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#78

Post by brandmeyer »

Hol' up.

While in bankruptcy, some fools ran up the price of Hertz stock. Then, while the price was up in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings, Hertz sold some new shares to the same fools. The final result of the bankruptcy wiped out all of the shareholders.

While the buyers were obviously fools, Hertz should have known that zero shareholder value was a likely outcome. How was selling more stock in that situation legal? I see that the sale was quickly shut down... but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#79

Post by unethical_ban »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #46
unethical_ban wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD isn't a meme stock - I knew it was going to be a safe bet when it was at 5, but didn't have money to do anything with it. It is guaranteed to exist, as it is the only x86 competitor to Intel, and IIRC their x86 license is non-transferable. It is nvidia's only main competitor. It does its job pretty well. Is it a blue chip in terms of stability? Clearly it is a bit more volatile. But it isn't dying anytime soon.

Respectfully those are meme stock arguments. A company can have all those things and be worth between 0 and 1 trillion, the question is whether the company is valued accurately by the markets and worth the price. Tesla is valued at what Apple was in 2019, but hasn’t made any profit ever without tax credits. AMD is at $100 billion, which seems high but could be worth it. Doesn’t matter if they mismanage cash and have…

No, they're stock arguments. They're "fundamentals". Did I look at their balance sheet, no. But asking questions about their competition and likelihood of being around and healthy in a few years isn't meme.

Even "Hey this has short 140% of float" isn't a meme stock thing.

The definition of "meme" stock is it being a meme - is it getting hyped up on social media and reddit with inside jokes and collective action (as much as they pretend it isn't collective action).

Re: Hertz, the original meme stock, is turning out to be worthless

#80

Post by Stratoscope »

Judgmentality wrote: post #19
tacheiordache wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed nothing lasts forever but TSLA at least has something to show while GME's business is passé. TSLA is overpriced but at the moment it crashed and will jump back to new heights. Why not take advantage of the notoriety and make a gain yourself?

I think it's obvious that I am holding a substantial amount of GME right now, and I think I should disclose that. Ryan Cohen, the guy who founded Chewy, is on the board for GME and leading an initiative to transform Gamestop into an e-commerce store. In other words he wants to compete directly with Steam, and while many don't realize it yet, Amazon. And this is one of the only people in history who has successfully b…

> Chewy absolutely dominated the pet market for e-commerce.

Indeed, I think we get as many Chewy boxes as Amazon boxes. Of course three dogs and three cats will do that.

Chewy used to send every customer a handwritten personalized Christmas card each year. I think they had every employee spend some time writing these cards when they weren't busy.

Later they switched to printed cards using a handwriting font, but those early years of handwritten cards certainly left an impression.

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